local agreements outside national dispute!!

[Picket]

our local delivery rep is going to propose an agreed deal between him and our DUM and his boss too. this i've heard will include putting start times back to 5:30 instead of the current time 6:15 (full time) - anything else included in it i don't know, but i've asked him how he thinks he can get an agreed deal outside of the national dispute - surely any local arrangements will be subject to any future agreed deal?

our office has withdrawn the good will and has been doing the job as it should be done - this has caused a hell of a backlog - so much so they have been turning wagons full of mail away.

i'm wondering whether the management will agree to any proposition that will regain good will just to clear the back log and then they'll turn around and tell us to follow nation policy - and any agreed local agreement is devoid!

i'm considering opposing this offer of local greement what does anyone else think?

[dvbuk55]

our local delivery rep is going to propose an agreed deal between him and our DUM and his boss too. this i've heard will include putting start times back to 5:30 instead of the current time 6:15 (full time) - anything else included in it i don't know, but i've asked him how he thinks he can get an agreed deal outside of the national dispute - surely any local arrangements will be subject to any future agreed deal?

our office has withdrawn the good will and has been doing the job as it should be done - this has caused a hell of a backlog - so much so they have been turning wagons full of mail away.

i'm wondering whether the management will agree to any proposition that will regain good will just to clear the back log and then they'll turn around and tell us to follow nation policy - and any agreed local agreement is devoid!

i'm considering opposing this offer of local greement what does anyone else think?

If you can get it and it is beneficial to the membership then take it - it needs to be agreed and signed off though - not just some easy get out for the back log.
When the back log is clear if RM try to renege go into disagreement and pass it up the line.

[Picket]

our local delivery rep is going to propose an agreed deal between him and our DUM and his boss too. this i've heard will include putting start times back to 5:30 instead of the current time 6:15 (full time) - anything else included in it i don't know, but i've asked him how he thinks he can get an agreed deal outside of the national dispute - surely any local arrangements will be subject to any future agreed deal?

our office has withdrawn the good will and has been doing the job as it should be done - this has caused a hell of a backlog - so much so they have been turning wagons full of mail away.

i'm wondering whether the management will agree to any proposition that will regain good will just to clear the back log and then they'll turn around and tell us to follow nation policy - and any agreed local agreement is devoid!

i'm considering opposing this offer of local greement what does anyone else think?

If you can get it and it is beneficial to the membership then take it - it needs to be agreed and signed off though - not just some easy get out for the back log.
When the back log is clear if RM try to renege go into disagreement and pass it up the line.

Thanks

[BELIAL]

Don't touch it with a barge poll. Youll get your local agreement as will others ,the no vote will be weakened ,everyone else gets shafted then theyll come back to mop up those with local agreements and it's goodnight Vienna

[dvbuk55]

Don't touch it with a barge poll. Youll get your local agreement as will others ,the no vote will be weakened ,everyone else gets shafted then theyll come back to mop up those with local agreements and it's goodnight Vienna

That's nonsense B, this agreement revolves round local agreement and when making agreement it is quite easy to institute a "subject to a ratified national agreement" catch them whilst they are weak because they are weak until the agreement goes in - which isn't certain but I think it will be agreed. There's another 3 weeks before the close of ballot, result on 27/11, new pay rate on 30/11, £175 and back pay 7/12 - even if I'm out by a week the money will start flowing before Santa climbs down the chimney.

[BELIAL]

Don't touch it with a barge poll. Youll get your local agreement as will others ,the no vote will be weakened ,everyone else gets shafted then theyll come back to mop up those with local agreements and it's goodnight Vienna

That's nonsense B, this agreement revolves round local agreement and when making agreement it is quite easy to institute a "subject to a ratified national agreement" catch them whilst they are weak because they are weak until the agreement goes in - which isn't certain but I think it will be agreed. There's another 3 weeks before the close of ballot, result on 27/11, new pay rate on 30/11, £175 and back pay 7/12 - even if I'm out by a week the money will start flowing before Santa climbs down the chimney.

Surely lots of little local agreements prior to a national ballot will inevitably weaken the no vote improving the chances of hayes getting his ratified national ballot.

I do not think it takes much imagination to predict RM's actions once they secure a yes vote. The end result will be a workforce fragmented and picked off on an RM timetable with no prospect of national action to support them. You think nonsense , I think an entirely predictable certainty

[dvbuk55]

Don't touch it with a barge poll. Youll get your local agreement as will others ,the no vote will be weakened ,everyone else gets shafted then theyll come back to mop up those with local agreements and it's goodnight Vienna

That's nonsense B, this agreement revolves round local agreement and when making agreement it is quite easy to institute a "subject to a ratified national agreement" catch them whilst they are weak because they are weak until the agreement goes in - which isn't certain but I think it will be agreed. There's another 3 weeks before the close of ballot, result on 27/11, new pay rate on 30/11, £175 and back pay 7/12 - even if I'm out by a week the money will start flowing before Santa climbs down the chimney.

Surely lots of little local agreements prior to a national ballot will inevitably weaken the no vote improving the chances of hayes getting his ratified national ballot.

I do not think it takes much imagination to predict RM's actions once they secure a yes vote. The end result will be a workforce fragmented and picked off on an RM timetable with no prospect of national action to support them. You think nonsense , I think an entirely predictable certainty

And I wouldn't disagree with your premise BUT it is all dependent on a NO vote. The timetable for the ballot is most definitely biased towards a YES vote and once the vote is in - then YES it is going to be every office for itself really. I don't think there is going to be an avalanche of agreements beforehand but we have certainly made some overtures on a Saturday agreement. I think our rep has acted quite shrewdly because he has opened a dialogue and put them on the back foot, because I think the management are at a loose end at the moment. They don't want to rock the boat and I suspect they have been told not to. Therefore if you think there may be an advantage then go for it.

[BELIAL]

Don't touch it with a barge poll. Youll get your local agreement as will others ,the no vote will be weakened ,everyone else gets shafted then theyll come back to mop up those with local agreements and it's goodnight Vienna

That's nonsense B, this agreement revolves round local agreement and when making agreement it is quite easy to institute a "subject to a ratified national agreement" catch them whilst they are weak because they are weak until the agreement goes in - which isn't certain but I think it will be agreed. There's another 3 weeks before the close of ballot, result on 27/11, new pay rate on 30/11, £175 and back pay 7/12 - even if I'm out by a week the money will start flowing before Santa climbs down the chimney.

Surely lots of little local agreements prior to a national ballot will inevitably weaken the no vote improving the chances of hayes getting his ratified national ballot.

I do not think it takes much imagination to predict RM's actions once they secure a yes vote. The end result will be a workforce fragmented and picked off on an RM timetable with no prospect of national action to support them. You think nonsense , I think an entirely predictable certainty

And I wouldn't disagree with your premise BUT it is all dependent on a NO vote. The timetable for the ballot is most definitely biased towards a YES vote and once the vote is in - then YES it is going to be every office for itself really. I don't think there is going to be an avalanche of agreements beforehand but we have certainly made some overtures on a Saturday agreement. I think our rep has acted quite shrewdly because he has opened a dialogue and put them on the back foot, because I think the management are at a loose end at the moment. They don't want to rock the boat and I suspect they have been told not to.

Therefore if you think there may be an advantage then go for it.

With all respect DV the point I was attempting to make perhaps not that clearly ,is that local agreements offer false hope thus increasing the likelihood of a national agreement acceptance. The arguement is in no way predicated on the basis of a no vote, in fact it assumes the worst case scenario of a yes vote.
Once a national agreement has been accepted how long do you think RM will allow these cosy little local agreements to continue, and what effective redress will you have when they are ripped up?
Avalanche, course not, but to tipping point yes.
Told not to, almost certainly it fit's the bill.
"management at a loose end" ,fall for it at your peril .

[Wild Cat]

Be careful before entering into any local agreement as this was what the office I was working at in 2004 when SDD was brought in agreed to do.

They thought they would be smart and agree to the 5 day week and implement walk cuts ahead of everyone else and thought they were getting a good deal.

After the dust had settled other offices that waited and held out got a far better deal with less cuts and we ended up getting stitched up.

There is no point rushing into doing deals with management in a situation like this as the management will see it as you being keen and praise you for your efforts whilst laughing at you all the way to the bank behind your backs.

In my experience in RM it is better to hang it out and see what the union agree and then see if you can get anything better afterwards and do not let the screws see that you are keen to make changes as they are the ones who need the changes not us so let them approach you and then you agree on your terms at your own pace.