Waitng for decision on stage 3 dismissal, feeling stressed

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 22 Jun 2018, 21:12

I triggered a stage 1 due to arthritis in the lower spine and I'm covered with the Equality Act for this.
My marriage broke down and i suffered deep depression and had another 3 absences totalling 30 days, which triggered the stage 3 dismissal. I have suffered many bouts of depression over the years and been referred to OH assist many times but never got it in writing to cover me for the equality act which would of covered me for the last 3 absences. At my dismissal meeting the manager was only interested in the absences of depression although he did take notes about my arthritis. I feel hes going to try push for dismissal on the grounds of my depression and my not getting it in writing to be covered by the EA.
The stage 1 because of absence through arthritis ,they never offered me reasonable adjustments or light duties, also in the notes they was told to do a risk assessment which they to this day have never done.

I'm now awaiting the stage 3 dismissal decision and still suffering with depression .I'm really sick with worry. Common guys what are my chances of keeping my job ??

anthonyok · Post by **anthonyok** » 22 Jun 2018, 21:30

Good luck i hope it works out for you , there must surely be some protection for you depression and what you been through should surely be on your side.

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 22 Jun 2018, 21:35

Thnx m8 yes I'm really scared at moment , i know they are sacking people for anything at moment I'm just hoping my arthritis being covered by the Equality Act at the stage 1 will be enough to save my job.

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 22 Jun 2018, 21:50

Were you issued a stage 2?

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 22 Jun 2018, 21:52

All absences relating to an absence covered under the equality act would be discounted so I wouldn’t have thought you would have anything to worry about. HR will most likely be saying let you keep your job because they know they’ll get sued.
Once you get your job back though, sue them to high heaven.

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 22 Jun 2018, 22:04

yes stage 2 was caused through marriage breakdown/depression and i foolishly went sick with same and this triggered the stage 3 dismissal. I really am in limbo . At the stage 3 meeting the union rep just said its 50/50 and i could go to appeal. They really are not giving me any confidence at moment.

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 22 Jun 2018, 22:05

and you say sue them ??

chuckychucks · Post by **chuckychucks** » 23 Jun 2018, 02:02

You can ask for copies of all OH Assist reports either through your manager or via an SAR (Subject Access Request) it will most likely state in the reports that in the assessors opinion you are likely to be covered by Equality Act.
However this is just their opinion and ultimately a tribunal judge will have the final say, but lets hope it never has to go that far.

You must show the adverse effect your condition has on your life is long term. This means you must be in one of the following situations:

the adverse effect has lasted for more than 12 months
the adverse effect is likely to last for more than 12 months
the adverse effect is likely to last for the rest of your life, if you're expected to live for less than 12 months

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 23 Jun 2018, 17:12

Creditshampoo wrote:All absences relating to an absence covered under the equality act would be discounted so I wouldn’t have thought you would have anything to worry about. HR will most likely be saying let you keep your job because they know they’ll get sued.
Once you get your job back though, sue them to high heaven.

Are you sure that absences under Equality Legislation are discounted?
As far as I understood, from what little I have heard of this legislation, is that it obliges the employer to make "reasonable adjustments", so,for example our correspondent above , is suffering from a lifelong condition , so, a reasonable adjustment may be that the bar be set higher to trigger a stage warning, if the absence is related to the condition. It is not a get out of jail free card. I could be wrong, and I am happy to be proven so. I would imagine that if you are suffering from a condition that is covered by the legislation ,then you cannot be dismissed solely because you have that condition.
From the citizens advice website:
You’re dismissed because of sickness absence

If you're dismissed because of sickness absence which is because of your disability, your dismissal may be discrimination arising from disability. However it won't be discrimination if your employer can justify the dismissal. But your employer must always consider if there are any reasonable adjustments that would enable you to return to work - for example, lighter duties, a different role, flexible working, making adaptations to the workplace or providing specialised equipment.

chuckychucks · Post by **chuckychucks** » 23 Jun 2018, 19:52

From Royal Mails own attendance policy it states :

Does an employee’s absence count as part
of the formal attendance process?

Any absence that is considered to be related
to an employee’s disability will still be reviewed
but should 'NORMALLY' be discounted as part of
the formal attendance process.

Of course using words like 'Normally' leaves it open to abuse.

Another thing from the policy to explore or ask questions, preferably in writing.

Where the manager may be considering if the
disability related absence should be considered
as part of the formal attendance process, the
manager should seek advice first from the HR
Advice Centre.
In deciding whether to count a disability
related absence towards the formal attendance
process, the manager should have:

• Reviewed all relevant Occupational Health
Service reports and considered whether it is
appropriate to seek further advice from the
Occupational Health Service.

Having sought advice from Occupational Health
Service and HR Advice Centre and where it
is justified to do so e.g. an employee’s disability
related absences reach an unacceptable level,
the manager should advise them in writing
that any future absences may be counted.

The employee should receive written notice
in advance.

Periods of absence that are discounted should
still be recorded and reviewed, and details of
any conversations retained.

rehabron · Post by **rehabron** » 25 Jun 2018, 23:11

samthedog123 wrote:I triggered a stage 1 due to arthritis in the lower spine and I'm covered with the Equality Act for this.
My marriage broke down and i suffered deep depression and had another 3 absences totalling 30 days, which triggered the stage 3 dismissal. I have suffered many bouts of depression over the years and been referred to OH assist many times but never got it in writing to cover me for the equality act which would of covered me for the last 3 absences. At my dismissal meeting the manager was only interested in the absences of depression although he did take notes about my arthritis. I feel hes going to try push for dismissal on the grounds of my depression and my not getting it in writing to be covered by the EA.
The stage 1 because of absence through arthritis ,they never offered me reasonable adjustments or light duties, also in the notes they was told to do a risk assessment which they to this day have never done.

I'm now awaiting the stage 3 dismissal decision and still suffering with depression .I'm really sick with worry. Common guys what are my chances of keeping my job ??

You have to establish why after several consultations to OH Assist our Occupational Health Provider with your continuous bouts of depression why they are unwilling to have your depression classed as a disability under the conditions of the Equality Act and if they have carried out a full and complete investigation and given a reason to you and RM as to why your condition of depression isn't covered. 20 minute telephone interviews would be inadequate to come to this decision and this would need to be challenged.
Furthermore you have omitted if RM has received GP fit notes stating depression and if this is being disputed by OH Assist and they have requested with your consent to contact5 your GP on this matter.
It is difficult to diagnose depression as to a physical impairment but where it is having a sustained and substantial adverse effect on your abilty to carry out evrday tasks as opposed to another individual and long term or fluctuates over a period of time then that could be considered within the Equality Act.
Examples of this would be your level of concentration at your workplace or forgetfulness.
You will realise that your employer can refuse to accept your medical condition from your GP and the occupational Health Provider but if established RM would be leaving themselves wide open to compensation claims.
You could also request a second opinion from OH Assist on your depression and would assist you in your appeal should the stage 3 go against you.
Remember to keep all the paperwork that has been assembled in relation to your absences with depression and also if you were ever given the oportunity of a face to face interview with OH Assist.

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 26 Jun 2018, 19:08

I do feel OH have failed me. I have had many bouts of depression over the years and taken medication for this also referred to OH on every occasion. I complained to my DOM that think they failed me. I also asked him to refer me to OH a few days ago as I'm not happy about the report and my job is on the line, He told me he would not refer me again as my questioning the report was not a good enough reason. He said if i was covered under the EA they would of put it in the report. The reason i feel they failed me is my mental health and attendance history, 7 episodes of depression totalling 320 days absence since 2005, all documented with my doctor are they blind as well as stupid ?

rehabron · Post by **rehabron** » 26 Jun 2018, 21:28

samthedog123 wrote:I do feel OH have failed me. I have had many bouts of depression over the years and taken medication for this also referred to OH on every occasion. I complained to my DOM that think they failed me. I also asked him to refer me to OH a few days ago as I'm not happy about the report and my job is on the line, He told me he would not refer me again as my questioning the report was not a good enough reason. He said if i was covered under the EA they would of put it in the report. The reason i feel they failed me is my mental health and attendance history, 7 episodes of depression totalling 320 days absence since 2005, all documented with my doctor are they blind as well as stupid ?

Can you advise that due to the excessive amounts off with your depression if your GP ever referred you to a NHS specialist for treatment and if so does your GP hold any reports ?

chuckychucks · Post by **chuckychucks** » 26 Jun 2018, 21:32

samthedog123 wrote:I do feel OH have failed me. I have had many bouts of depression over the years and taken medication for this also referred to OH on every occasion. I complained to my DOM that think they failed me. I also asked him to refer me to OH a few days ago as I'm not happy about the report and my job is on the line, He told me he would not refer me again as my questioning the report was not a good enough reason. He said if i was covered under the EA they would of put it in the report. The reason i feel they failed me is my mental health and attendance history, 7 episodes of depression totalling 320 days absence since 2005, all documented with my doctor are they blind as well as stupid ?

Are you sure it doesn't say somewhere in your OH Assist reports 'In my opinion he/she is likely to be covered by the Equality Act'?

From my own experience it has said that in a few of my reports, hence the reason i ask.

samthedog123 · Post by **samthedog123** » 26 Jun 2018, 23:25

Can you advise that due to the excessive amounts off with your depression if your GP ever referred you to a NHS specialist for treatment and if so does your GP hold any reports ?

I received counselling through Royal mail in 2005 and 2006 but have no paper work for this.