VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE DEBATE

[lovejoy]

Just to start a debate

A lot of people think that if the result of the ballot is a national no vote then Dave Ward, Billy Hayes and sections of the PEc should resign.

This is because the membership will be rejecting their chosen path of leadership.

You may or may not know that after the ballot the breakdown of each branches voting comes out.

Using the same idea as above does anyone think that officials of branches who recommend NO/YES votes only for their members to vote the opposite way should resign??

A vote of no confidence which ever way you look at it?

[strangler]

I would agree, you need those to be in touch with their members views.

[bigsharkboy]

Just to start a debate

A lot of people think that if the result of the ballot is a national no vote then Dave Ward, Billy Hayes and sections of the PEc should resign.

This is because the membership will be rejecting their chosen path of leadership.

You may or may not know that after the ballot the breakdown of each branches voting comes out.

Using the same idea as above does anyone think that officials of branches who recommend NO/YES votes only for their members to vote the opposite way should resign??

A vote of no confidence which ever way you look at it?

i disagree with all of the above

dave ward and billy haynes if we get a no vote shouldnt be allowed to resign they should get RM back for more talks and as for branch officials i can only comment on my own branch and we had a democratic vote(based on there offices views) with reps in attendance on tues are you suggesting all reps who voted no if they get a yes vote should resign or just the officials

[lovejoy]

i'm not suggesting anything mate, just thought it would be interesting debate.

If Ward recommends YES and its a NO then he will be at minimum labelled as out of touch

So on that basis if Your Branch officials Say vote No (obviously this should be based on their members views) and your branch returns a YES what does that say about how class the reps are to the members? About as close as the leadership if a NO is returned??

[bigsharkboy]

thats democracy for ya



trouble is the guys who bother to vote will see the lump sum as a big carrot

lets just hope theres a decent turnout

[stubaby]

i'm not suggesting anything mate, just thought it would be interesting debate.

If Ward recommends YES and its a NO then he will be at minimum labelled as out of touch

So on that basis if Your Branch officials Say vote No (obviously this should be based on their members views) and your branch returns a YES what does that say about how class the reps are to the members? About as close as the leadership if a NO is returned??

Hi Lovejoy

I actually think if there was a NO vote Dave and Billy would have to go as this is the best they have got after all these months its quite obviously not good enough they felt it was a good deal they would be hopelessly out of touch.
If i had a local meeting and after explaining the deal i felt my office would go against the committee's recomendation then we would have to consider our positions.
Which ever way the vote goes i do hope its unanimous either way as a close vote could leave us badly split cause in fighting which could divert us from the real issues.

[Geordie]

interesting but pointless at this stage.

If the debate needs to be had at all, it's after the ballot result.

Just because people have differences of opinion, strategy or direction does not mean they automatically have to resign.

[Miss Beeswax]

To Lovejoy. with the greatest of respect, but are you on drugs or on a different planet, you must be if you think this is a good deal. No deal is perfec se days with any employer but this deal has sold our members flexibilty and pensions down the pan and what have they got in return NOTHING.

To all members of the branches that have recommended a yes vote, these branch officials I believe are wearing rose coloured glasses, I am sure you as the members arent so vote NO, NO NO !!!!

[lovejoy]

To Lovejoy. with the greatest of respect, but are you on drugs or on a different planet, you must be if you think this is a good deal. No deal is perfec se days with any employer but this deal has sold our members flexibilty and pensions down the pan and what have they got in return NOTHING.

To all members of the branches that have recommended a yes vote, these branch officials I believe are wearing rose coloured glasses, I am sure you as the members arent so vote NO, NO NO !!!!

Sorry but i never mentioned by support / rejection of deal i was merely trying to debate a point of principle!

Read the post

[baldrick]

Just to start a debate

A lot of people think that if the result of the ballot is a national no vote then Dave Ward, Billy Hayes and sections of the PEc should resign.

This is because the membership will be rejecting their chosen path of leadership.

You may or may not know that after the ballot the breakdown of each branches voting comes out.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

After the Way Forward ballot didn't Keggie and Hodgson refuse to disclose the breakdown of voting because they claimed it would be 'divisive'. I suspect the same may happen again.

[lovejoy]

Just to start a debate

A lot of people think that if the result of the ballot is a national no vote then Dave Ward, Billy Hayes and sections of the PEc should resign.

This is because the membership will be rejecting their chosen path of leadership.

You may or may not know that after the ballot the breakdown of each branches voting comes out.

they did but it always gets out in he end doesn't it

____________________________________________________________________________________________

After the Way Forward ballot didn't Keggie and Johnson refuse to disclose the breakdown of voting because they claimed it would be 'divisive'. I suspect the same may happen again.

[baldrick]

Well I never heard the breakdown on the WF Agreement, and I was on the Branch Committee (Branch Organiser)at the time.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

they did but it always gets out in he end doesn't it

That's probably down to 'someone in the know!'

[k979aaa]

I would not like this to be about the politics of personailty on weather their is a yes or a no vote it a question for the individuals themselfs or till their is national elections the most important thing for me is the turnout and result for this vote affect's every person in the cwu you have a vote use it or you will lose it if the cwu is gone the only way to ensure you have a union is to vote and vote no!.

[dvbuk55]

i'm not suggesting anything mate, just thought it would be interesting debate.

If Ward recommends YES and its a NO then he will be at minimum labelled as out of touch

So on that basis if Your Branch officials Say vote No (obviously this should be based on their members views) and your branch returns a YES what does that say about how class the reps are to the members? About as close as the leadership if a NO is returned??

It would be an interesting debate, except the basic premise is erroneous. Branches are pretty much taking the lead from the PEC and the Negotiators and can be forgiven for following the lead. What is unacceptable is the negotiating, the ambiguity and downright lies perpetrated on the membership. Anyone with a modicum of intelligence who can read and understand the Pay and Modernisation Agreement 2007/2008 - which should be 2009 because that is the next time these two would be required to negotiate in earnest, wouldn't trust these two selling a second hand Lada in Kazakhstan.

You seem to be a reasonably intelligent guy and well informed which makes it more than inexplicable why you persistently defend the indefensible.