Should we be paid?

Jonesy 1971 · Post by **Jonesy 1971** » 05 Mar 2018, 23:08

Guys and girls, I am trying to get some clarity on the policy for non attendance for a servere weather day. There seems to be confusion (it is for me anyway) as to whether we get paid? Union says the there is no provision for claw back hours, or A/L, or unpaid.However the RM say it’s as above. As far as I can gather neither position is agreed. I am not over bothered which is the case I would just like to know where we stand. Any help?

I_Take_My_Breaks · Post by **I_Take_My_Breaks** » 05 Mar 2018, 23:40

Jonesy 1971 wrote:Guys and girls, I am trying to get some clarity on the policy for non attendance for a servere weather day. There seems to be confusion (it is for me anyway) as to whether we get paid? Union says the there is no provision for claw back hours, or A/L, or unpaid.However the RM say it’s as above. As far as I can gather neither position is agreed. I am not over bothered which is the case I would just like to know where we stand. Any help?

If you cannot make it to your place of work or another DO/MC if there is one close enough to you to walk to and sign on, then you have 3 options

1. Take an Annual Leave Day
2. Take it as Unpaid leave
3. Make the hours up.

The choice is yours to make. Not what Mgmt tell you to take.

Jonesy 1971 · Post by **Jonesy 1971** » 06 Mar 2018, 00:28

Thank you or your reply. Yes that’s the in unagreed management view, what I am asking for is the definitive up to date agreed version.

joewyan · Post by **joewyan** » 06 Mar 2018, 07:06

Jonesy 1971 wrote:Thank you or your reply. Yes that’s the in unagreed management view, what I am asking for is the definitive up to date agreed version.

If you are unable to make it to work they are your options. If you make it to work and then get sent home because there is no work then you will get paid in full.

I_Take_My_Breaks · Post by **I_Take_My_Breaks** » 06 Mar 2018, 08:27

Jonesy 1971 wrote:Thank you or your reply. Yes that’s the in unagreed management view, what I am asking for is the definitive up to date agreed version.

That is not the unagreed Mgmt view. That is the policy of RM during bad weather.

This thread over the years gives you some advice/idea

https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... =1&t=50367" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jonesy 1971 · Post by **Jonesy 1971** » 06 Mar 2018, 13:44

Thanks for the replies guys

Natagora · Post by **Natagora** » 06 Mar 2018, 16:23

We were offered the choice of either staying in the office until 14.10, or leaving at 10.00, fully paid but with the agreement that we’d clear everything the next day. Obviously if any street or whatever was still unsafe then we’d be able to leave it alone. Seemed like a fair deal. We went about ninety minutes over the following day but were still about two and a half hours better off.

FinishOnTime · Post by **FinishOnTime** » 06 Mar 2018, 16:32

If you've made a genuine attempt to get to work, it's not annual leave.

Don't know about anyone else, but I don't go to bed early, get up early, put my uniform on, get into my car when it's freezing cold, and skid about my road before deciding it's unsafe when I'm supposed to be on annual leave.

Post by **Warriorpostie** » 07 Mar 2018, 14:45

Similar situation here, couldn’t make it to work Thursday or Friday as I live in rural area & snow was bad. so happy enough to take them as annual leave days. Went into work on Saturday morning & worked for 1 hour 30 minutes. Then went home as no Work for me to do. Now being told that I have to make up the hours I didn’t work on Saturday so the 4 hours overtime I’ve done already this week will go towards the hours I owe them.

Surely if I made the effort to make it to work but Royal Mail can’t provide me with a full days work then I should get a full days pay regardless. & any overtime I work this week should be paid as normal.

It’s easy to see how Royal Mail makes so much profit every year, the just screw their employees out of their wages at every opportunity.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 07 Mar 2018, 17:07

Royal Mail managers 'should' be following the 'unagreed with the union but the union had some input with it' Adverse Weather Guide which I have put in this post.
The problem is some in The CWU are saying one thing and Royal Mail are saying another....suprise.

The Adverse Weather Guide is ''company policy' rather than a collective agreement with the union.

The LTB that we and many branches on Facebook bang on about is not agreed with Royal Mail.

I got this from their communications department this week regarding the 'Adverse Weather Guide'...

It is a company policy rather than a collective agreement with our unions. We consulted the unions on the contents and made adjustments as a result.

When a colleague can’t get to work because of bad weather we offer them the option of either taking holiday or making up the time later. If an individual prefers they can instead ask for unpaid time off but it is not one of our preferred options. Anyone who has no holiday left, or who has planned and booked all their current year allocation, can bring forward time from next year.

Regarding the LTB that everyone including us is banging on about which is produced at the end of this post they say...

The words you quote from the CWU look the same as something circulated back in 2009 which pre-dates the current policy guide. The letter to branches is right in saying we don’t use Pay and Modernisation flexibility when bad weather prevents people getting to work. Instead we follow company policy which ensures a fair outcome for all involved.

I have asked The CWU about this problem and the LTB they have yet to respond.

The LTB in question...

CWU HQ are receiving numerous reports and enquiries that as a result of the severe weather conditions, Royal Mail Managers are attempting to insist that in cases where our members are being sent home early from work due to unsafe conditions for delivery, collections, road services etc, the Pay & Modernisation Agreement and in particular the flexibility clause within that agreement, is applicable.

There is no provision within the Pay & Modernisation Agreement for the clawback of any time as a result of what is tantamount to an 'act of God' i.e. the severe weather conditions that the UK is currently experiencing.

We have had further reports that some Managers are attempting to have our members take annual leave, make good the time, or even in some cases Special Leave 'C' (unpaid) where they could not attend work through no fault of their own. Once again, our representatives should be clear that this has not been agreed with the Postal Department at CWU HQ.

Any enquiries should be addressed to the DGS (P) Department quoting reference number 60000.

The weather policy situation according to Royal Mail is very simple...their guide.
The CWU seem to think that everyone should get paid if they can't get into work (the LTB above) which we know doesn't happen.

The whole thing is a bit of a farce, either way some of you need your reps to be on the ball as you are seriously getting done over with clawback and all the other bollox happening.

Adverse Weather Guide.pdf

joewyan · Post by **joewyan** » 07 Mar 2018, 20:50

Warriorpostie wrote:Similar situation here, couldn’t make it to work Thursday or Friday as I live in rural area & snow was bad. so happy enough to take them as annual leave days. Went into work on Saturday morning & worked for 1 hour 30 minutes. Then went home as no Work for me to do. Now being told that I have to make up the hours I didn’t work on Saturday so the 4 hours overtime I’ve done already this week will go towards the hours I owe them.

Surely if I made the effort to make it to work but Royal Mail can’t provide me with a full days work then I should get a full days pay regardless. & any overtime I work this week should be paid as normal.

It’s easy to see how Royal Mail makes so much profit every year, the just screw their employees out of their wages at every opportunity.

No that’s rubbish. On the Saturday if you were sent home because there was no work then they must pay you for your full shift. If you were given an option to do work and chose to go home that would be different.

Post by **Warriorpostie** » 07 Mar 2018, 22:40

joewyan wrote:
Warriorpostie wrote:Similar situation here, couldn’t make it to work Thursday or Friday as I live in rural area & snow was bad. so happy enough to take them as annual leave days. Went into work on Saturday morning & worked for 1 hour 30 minutes. Then went home as no Work for me to do. Now being told that I have to make up the hours I didn’t work on Saturday so the 4 hours overtime I’ve done already this week will go towards the hours I owe them.

Surely if I made the effort to make it to work but Royal Mail can’t provide me with a full days work then I should get a full days pay regardless. & any overtime I work this week should be paid as normal.

It’s easy to see how Royal Mail makes so much profit every year, the just screw their employees out of their wages at every opportunity.
No that’s rubbish. On the Saturday if you were sent home because there was no work then they must pay you for your full shift. If you were given an option to do work and chose to go home that would be different.

I was actually phoned on my way to work & told there was nothing for me to do. But I went in anyway I tied off my delivery & sorted all my parcels ready for Monday morning. As did everyone else who made it into work. Most people had left work and gone home by 11am. Absolute joke being denied our wages using ‘clawback’ as an excuse.

joewyan · Post by **joewyan** » 07 Mar 2018, 23:21

Warriorpostie wrote:
joewyan wrote:
Warriorpostie wrote:Similar situation here, couldn’t make it to work Thursday or Friday as I live in rural area & snow was bad. so happy enough to take them as annual leave days. Went into work on Saturday morning & worked for 1 hour 30 minutes. Then went home as no Work for me to do. Now being told that I have to make up the hours I didn’t work on Saturday so the 4 hours overtime I’ve done already this week will go towards the hours I owe them.

Surely if I made the effort to make it to work but Royal Mail can’t provide me with a full days work then I should get a full days pay regardless. & any overtime I work this week should be paid as normal.

It’s easy to see how Royal Mail makes so much profit every year, the just screw their employees out of their wages at every opportunity.
No that’s rubbish. On the Saturday if you were sent home because there was no work then they must pay you for your full shift. If you were given an option to do work and chose to go home that would be different.
I was actually phoned on my way to work & told there was nothing for me to do. But I went in anyway I tied off my delivery & sorted all my parcels ready for Monday morning. As did everyone else who made it into work. Most people had left work and gone home by 11am. Absolute joke being denied our wages using ‘clawback’ as an excuse.

They are not allowed to claw back those hours u less they offered you work to do that was refused. Unless you agreed to make the hours back before going home on the Saturday then they need to pay you.