WOW, I thought 38 hr week was definite.

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 23 Feb 2018, 17:11

Just looking at the 'Frontline Managers Briefing' PDF.

I quote:

Reductions in the working week, subject
to specific trials in our operation (year one),
extending acceptance and delivery times and
financial efficiency performance (year two
onwards).

I thought there were 2 definites in the agreement - the pay 'rise' and the first year week reduction to 38 hours.

It seems even the first bit, the reduction to 38 hours (in October I think) is also subject to a load of unspecified trials and performance standards.

So the only guaranteed part of the agreement is the percentage pay rise.

No, I can't vote to accept that. I can't even believe the union is putting it to the vote.

mark.cup · Post by **mark.cup** » 23 Feb 2018, 17:22

I'm not going to slate the union yes they've moved Royal Mail on several issues but if I'm honest the whole agreement couldn't be anymore vague if they tried.....

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 23 Feb 2018, 17:26

I know m8 are we saying if the trials don't make savings we can't have a shorter working week, or are we saying agree to trials you can have a shorter working regardless of if they work or not,it's a bit grey like the whole agreement

Celgar · Post by **Celgar** » 23 Feb 2018, 17:41

I have just been reading the latest edition of the Courier. Certainly with the second hour of SWW from this proposal/agreement it states the trials don't only have to take place but they have to succeed in terms of what RM expects to get from them. I wouldn't be surprised if this is also true of the first hour of new SWW as well.
To be honest the SWW idea goes over my head - we will still be doing the same workload and it will still take the same amount of time to deliver it. All we might get from it is to start twelve minutes later which most Postie's won't want to do.
I agree the proposal/agreement is far too vague although its obvious which way RM wants to take the business. What we need is an overwhelming NO vote at the ballot in March. Not to strike, because no one really wants to do that, but to get an amended and more detailed proposal/agreement. We can't know the results of trials before they have taken place but we need to know exactly what changes to working practices and the pipeline RM have in their minds eye. Only then can an educated decision be made by the workforce. At the moment we are officially in the dark.

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 23 Feb 2018, 17:57

Celgar wrote: Certainly with the second hour of SWW from this proposal/agreement it states the trials don't only have to take place but they have to succeed in terms of what RM expects to get from them. I wouldn't be surprised if this is also true of the first hour of new SWW as well.

This is a direct quote from the Managers Briefing PDF which can be downloaded. (I got mine from the first class chat group on Facebook.

"
From October 2018, a one-hour reduction to
the working week (currently 39 hours). This is
subject to: the deployment of the new last
letter delivery time; and the completion of
specific trials in the operation to help improve
customer service and productivity. These
include delivery methods and automated
hours data capture.
From October 2019, a further one-hour
reduction to the working week, subject to a
joint evaluation of factors including ongoing
efficiency, implementation of changes from
trials in the operation and technological
changes.
A commitment to move towards a 35-hour
week by 2022. "

So a "commitment to move towards a 35-hour
week by 2022" to me, means that will never ever happen.

The first bit, in bold, I believe means the first hour reduction, to 38, depends on LOADS.

Post by **rogersh** » 23 Feb 2018, 20:12

The 2018 Deal Justice for the 89.1% RESPONSE
Postby rogersh » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:15 pm

Previous post relevant to this thread.

I posted this recently;

The pre ballot agreement states;
"A reduction to the working week of one hour from October 2018 SUBJECT to (EDIT) (A) ...Trials ..."

Given the two hour reduction, at October 2019, is linked to the pay deal re the 5.33% .
If we are led to believe the reduction to 37 p/w is a foregone conclusion I don't see the point of the trials.

What if the trials decide it is unworkable? . As the next pay review date WILL be 1st April 2020 then we lose out on the 5.33%. (For PT an actual weekly increase)

Don't think that will happen , But it is possible under the wording as I read it.

The 2018 Deal Justice for the 89.1% RESPONSE

Reduction in the Working Week

The reduction to 38 hours will in fact happen in October. What has been agreed is that we will undertake trials only for its introduction and not that it is subject to them being implemented or resourcing to workload, individual performance data etc, etc. The working day will be made up with various attendance times that suit the ability to create innovative duty structures, and the flightpath to 35 hours helps increase this even more.

So I read it incorrectly. Reduction in hours WILL happen & is not SUBJECT to trials!
rogersh

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 23 Feb 2018, 20:23

rogersh wrote:
The reduction to 38 hours will in fact happen in October. What has been agreed is that we will undertake trials only for its introduction and not that it is subject to them being implemented or resourcing to workload, individual performance data etc, etc. The working day will be made up with various attendance times that suit the ability to create innovative duty structures, and the flightpath to 35 hours helps increase this even more.

So I read it incorrectly. Reduction in hours WILL happen & is not SUBJECT to trials!
rogersh

From October 2018, a one-hour reduction to
the working week (currently 39 hours). This is
subject to: the deployment of the new last
letter delivery time; and the completion of
specific trials in the operation to help improve
customer service and productivity. These
include delivery methods and automated
hours data capture.

It is, officially, in the words of Royal Mail, as stated in their Frontline Managers Briefing which can be downloaded here https://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communi ... 62&t=84411" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
SUBJECT TO THOSE CONDITIONS.

Post by **rogersh** » 23 Feb 2018, 20:57

Thought I would clarify where the extract I posted was from & the Author.

Postby TrueBlueTerrier » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:01 pm

The 2018 Deal – Justice for the 89.1% - RESPONSE

Produced by Tony Bouch – PEC Member in a personal capacity

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 23 Feb 2018, 21:38

Rest assured ,Management will will completely honour the spirit of the agreement; and any transgression will be vigorously opposed by the union leadership.

Like seniority; attendance patterns ;resourcing ; ssow ; and on and on.

ask your rep , nothing happens , take it to area ,nothing happens ; take it to division , fobbed off nothing happens ,take it national ,no reply and nothing happens. What can you do?

clashcityrocker · Post by **clashcityrocker** » 23 Feb 2018, 21:59

BELIAL wrote: ask your rep , nothing happens , take it to area ,nothing happens ; take it to division , fobbed off nothing happens ,take it national ,no reply and nothing happens. What can you do?

You can always use justsayit.
But nothing happens.

tommyrep · Post by **tommyrep** » 23 Feb 2018, 22:46

mark.cup wrote:I'm not going to slate the union yes they've moved Royal Mail on several issues but if I'm honest the whole agreement couldn't be anymore vague if they tried.....

All done by design. Written in word speak to create confusion at delivery level and allow the same poison and manipulation to fester and grow. Prepare for B&H like never before, yes voters will well and truly f..k the weak units AGAIN. CWU hierarchy not interested, shafted again by the looks of it.

lightningpostman · Post by **lightningpostman** » 23 Feb 2018, 22:57

Celgar wrote: we will still be doing the same workload and it will still take the same amount of time to deliver it.

no that is false,

less time to do more amounts of work forget about the 12 hour reduction a etc

royal mails own admission parcels are increasing year on end, making huge profits

yet a parcel takes between 1-5 mins to deliver or card

a letter takes between 5-25 seconds.

hasd the increase of parcels reduced your amount of calls or made your walk smaller?

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 25 Feb 2018, 09:24

BELIAL wrote:Rest assured ,Management will will completely honour the spirit of the agreement; and any transgression will be vigorously opposed by the union leadership.

Like seniority; attendance patterns ;resourcing ; ssow ; and on and on.

ask your rep , nothing happens , take it to area ,nothing happens ; take it to division , fobbed off nothing happens ,take it national ,no reply and nothing happens. What can you do?

Just give it time, everything Royal Mail want will become reality. The union (us), will huff and puff ,but we will take it lying down ,meekly and without complaint, like we always do.

Post by **Sugar** » 25 Feb 2018, 10:12

rogersh wrote:The working day will be made up with various attendance times that suit the ability to create innovative duty structures, and the flightpath to 35 hours helps increase this even more.

The above has me very worried. I can see this leading to peoples start/finish times in DO's being all over the place on a daily basis as they try to interpret the data from the PDA's and build duties around it. No more cutting off because all you'll get back from managers is "the PDA says you have time plus you can do lapsing". Bullying and Harassment will sky rocket never mind people going on sick with stress. The union have completely coc£ed up here and left a lot of DO's in the sh!t by not tying down RM to actual concrete agreements not a load of "if's but's and maybe's".

Post by **rogersh** » 25 Feb 2018, 14:12

To clarify: The extract from my post should be attributed to Tony Bouch – PEC Member in a personal capacity .
I did not write it.