Why should I say yes??

Jambomatt1874 · Post by **Jambomatt1874** » 05 Feb 2018, 18:16

After 30 years in this business and having been told countless times that we’ve got a great deal only to find out months later that ‘ it was in the small print ‘ why I should be saying yes as I can’t see what this great agreement is.
There’s no figures about my pension! I haven’t been told what effect it will have on my office! The wage increase was due last April, whatever way you potray 5% it’s really only around 2.5%, 5% plus a lump sum would have been a start.
Countless other points in the agreement are vague to say the least but we’ve got a fantastic deal!
I’m voting no and nobody better moan to me in 6 months time about not seeing that in the agreement!

NewPostieUK · Post by **NewPostieUK** » 05 Feb 2018, 18:27

Jambomatt1874 wrote:After 30 years in this business and having been told countless times that we’ve got a great deal only to find out months later that ‘ it was in the small print ‘ why I should be saying yes as I can’t see what this great agreement is.
There’s no figures about my pension! I haven’t been told what effect it will have on my office! The wage increase was due last April, whatever way you potray 5% it’s really only around 2.5%, 5% plus a lump sum would have been a start.
Countless other points in the agreement are vague to say the least but we’ve got a fantastic deal!
I’m voting no and nobody better moan to me in 6 months time about not seeing that in the agreement!

Absolutely spot on.

There is no deal! The only solid thing is the pay rise. Everything else is guff, promises, possibles, and/ or subject to trials.

What if we vote yes and then the trials say no? No 38 hour week, no 1000 offices unaffected by the latter finish times.

What if the government so no to this legislation thing for out pensions?

Yamr1 · Post by **Yamr1** » 05 Feb 2018, 18:53

The deal is a load of s&@*e

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 05 Feb 2018, 20:37

its a no from me as well , none of the major issues that staff are up against day to day have been mentioned or addressed in this agreement , b&h ? , workload ? culture ? later finish times ? oh and data capture and we know what that road will go down , and a pension that has to be passed through parliament and what if it doesn't ?

pagedown70 · Post by **pagedown70** » 05 Feb 2018, 20:55

Agree,agree,agree

cubanpete · Post by **cubanpete** » 05 Feb 2018, 21:13

The union said 'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'. Thanks for nothing CWU. Stick it where the sun don't shine.

BoltonPostie · Post by **BoltonPostie** » 05 Feb 2018, 21:45

When they said rise up they really meant all their extra shares they probably got for such a shitty agreement.. Please don't take away our paid full time release away Moya!

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 05 Feb 2018, 22:59

I’m voting no. They’re telling everyone how the changes of the sick pay are off the table HOWEVER in the agreement it states they haven’t looked at it but will look at managing attendance within 3 months of the agreement. Why didn’t they look at that in this agreement I wonder? Absolutely pathetic

Yamr1 · Post by **Yamr1** » 05 Feb 2018, 23:22

Creditshampoo wrote:I’m voting no. They’re telling everyone how the changes of the sick pay are off the table HOWEVER in the agreement it states they haven’t looked at it but will look at managing attendance within 3 months of the agreement. Why didn’t they look at that in this agreement I wonder? Absolutely pathetic

Unreal

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 06 Feb 2018, 21:23

we are being shafted and cwu and pec should be advising us accordingly not at the behest and wishes of our employer
from what i see with a massive ia vote we achieved we have gained nothing
in fact i think the pension proposal is worse than the one we rejected and if this agreement had been proposed to us we would have voted for ia ballot against it
i reckon cwu and rm couldnt agree to deal and with time kicking on they had to spin this shite together for the benefit of shareholdings
it should be returned a massive no
and all div reps attending meetings should be telling executive to get the agreement as it stands to f**k
if not they better be negotiating vr packages for everyone they have let down
rem its us they are supposed to defend

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 06 Feb 2018, 22:57

Well,

1. Our pensions will be worse than what is was before and I'm not totally convinced about this new pension scheme. Especially when you consider the fact that RM initially rejected it out of hand first time around….
2. The SWW will create a bigger divide between those who rush round still trying to beat the system and those who do the job properly - cue more bullying and harassment, using the PDAs as tools to measure performance. An obvious reason why the company invested thousands of pounds in these new PDAs.
3. The LAT will simply mean more guys start earlier because they don't want to be finishing later! And this puts more pressure on other staff. And if RM initially suggested that our shift would end at 5pm, what made them somehow come down 2 hours earlier to 3pm?? Where they just feeding us a load of bull to gauge our reaction or do they honestly believe that one day our shift may have to finish at this time? If so, what is it that will make the pipeline still work within our current hours? Are the company going to actually invest more money in more automation and staff, when the whole idea of re-designing the pipeline is to do away with indoor sorting staff?
5. Agreeing to "trials" on perhaps bigger outdoor spans with no clear directive on how the working day is to be made up. Will the breaks still added on the end? Do we have a break in between?

In short, the agreement has been hastily drawn up with many 'grey' areas. By far the biggest is expecting staff to be doing 8 or 9 loops everyday. We know what the Royal Mail are like, every chance they get they make the duties bigger and that will be the real killer. I have far too many questions than I do answers to vote YES at the moment.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 07 Feb 2018, 08:09

It is not me to advise you to vote yes or no.

However when you do so , you do have to remind yourself what Royal Mail originally wanted and just as importantly if the vote is no what you want from any agreement and that will be no by strikes

1. Will we force the employer to pay an extra 500 million to keep the DB scheme open more than they made in their annual profit ?

2. I get the argument that members are concerned with the fact that the new defined ambition scheme has not got the go ahead as yet. However as the communications and briefings will confirm they genuinely believe that Royal Mail will be authorised to be a pilot .

3. I totally understand the concerned that the pension is not guaranteed as it is targeted numbers but Royal Mail want to be seen as leading lights in resolving the pension problems in the UK and will want to have these targets achieved.

4. All Pops scheme members will for the first time have all their basic pay pensionable , this is the biggest number of our membership. Ie those who joined from 1987 until 2008.

5. It uplifts all those who joined after 2008 into none scheme and they will get a better pension.

6. Those in the ex Pops scheme and those who were not in the highest tier of the DC scheme will pay more pensionable pay as the POPs scheme members will pay on the first £3500 and those members on the DC scheme members on the lower tier will pay 6%.

7. Pay - 5% is worth more in your pocket from October 2017 than 2.6% from April 2017. The difference on backpay on basic pay and delivery supplement is around £30.. 2% from April which is dependent on a new Delivery , Mail Centre , RDC and Logstics Agreement.

8. Reduction in the working week from October based on trails being run from after the agreeement is endorsed and based on the later acceptance times changing in October. Those of you who think you can stop later acceptance times are of their heads. Royal Mail have ambitions in the first year to increase revenue to over 50 million and potential growing each year.

9. Pipeline massively reduced from what Royal Mail wanted when they wanted to cancel all flights which did not go over water. Additionally the new pipeline of last letter of 15:30 which does not mean people finish at 15:30 will last a minuimn of 3 years and can only be changed by a new agreement. For the vast majority no change will be necessary.

10. The shorter working week hour will be introduced in deliveries by a combination of IWT and PDA’s investment will be put in where the hour can demonstrate it cannot be absorbed . In Mail Centres , RDCs , Collections , Newtwork will be subject to further talks before October to determine where the hour off the working week will be.

11, for the further trails than the AHDC trial ie Automated Hours Data Capture and delivery method trails these will be subject to further talks and a new agreement. Obviously it is worth point of the one wave trail in Walsall failed to produce what Royal Mail wanted , equally the trial of the new sorting machine in Exteter has result in the company cancelling their orders of these machines. So not all trails or Royal Mail’s ideas come into fruition.

In my opinion the judgement on this agreement is what change does it really commit us too and what has it parked and what has it achieved in Pensions if government agrees and pay ?

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 07 Feb 2018, 08:28

What Royal Mail originally wanted before negotiations, is largely irrelevant as it is an obvious tactic before entering any period of deliberations, to put up 'pie in the sky' ideas that you have no intention of actually implementing, which you can cast aside during talks, to appear to be conforming. You would have thought senior union negotiators would have understood that.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 07 Feb 2018, 08:34

dingo wrote:8. Reduction in the working week from October based on trails being run from after the agreeement is endorsed and based on the later acceptance times changing in October. Those of you who think you can stop later acceptance times are of their heads. Royal Mail have ambitions in the first year to increase revenue to over 50 million and potential growing each year.

10. The shorter working week hour will be introduced in deliveries by a combination of IWT and PDA’s investment will be put in where the hour can demonstrate it cannot be absorbed . In Mail Centres , RDCs , Collections , Newtwork will be subject to further talks before October to determine where the hour off the working week will be.

If the LAT stuff comes in too late into MCs it won't get processed, it might in larger MCs that have the room but most will probably not have the staff to spare. The SWW will just result in more work failing, all shifts are down to the wire anyway. It's not unusal for some shifts to possibly be over 2/3 of the staff being either casual/agency or people on ot. If RM want this to work, they'll have to put a lot of hours in

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 07 Feb 2018, 08:45

Space the main bulk will arrive with the core hence the work , however there will initially be 80 units set up to handle those which do not. This work will take place up to October.