Don't abandon the CWU!!!!!

[andy2007]

I have seen more and more posts by people either threatening to, or actually leaving the CWU because of the way this dispute has been handled. Please THINK about what this will do!

WE are the Union, not those in the top jobs. So when we are confronted by a situation like this, we need to DO something about it NOT throw our toys out of the pram and leave.

A Union gets it's strength from the Members standing together. If the number of Members drops, the Union is weakened. This is hardly the time to do that!

I know that this has been said elsewhere, by myself and others. But I thought it would be better to get this sorted out in it's own Thread, so we can get this sorted out once and for all.

I have given my views on this. If you think I'm wrong, then please tell me, and we can (hopefully) sort out how to deal with this farce effectively.

[lovejoy]

Good post Andy

[barkersboy]

Agree entirely with Andy & Lovejoy.
The problem, in my opinion, is the sectarian way that branches and regions are dealing with this matter. Many of my colleagues are led by their reps and will listen to their views. However, many colleagues also visit this sight for the opinions of others. (My fault for putting royalmailchat on their agenda).
If we read all thetopics for today we see that there is a trend for smaller branches to reject the agreement.
Then on one topic we read that London have decided to accept the agreement (with a reference to skulduggery and a different deal for them).
In these circumstances it is no wonder that members start to believe that the union is divided (local negotiiation) and therefore the weak will perish and the strong will have there own agendas.
Those that are weak will then say they are leaving the union. Then people like me spend hours convincing them that they still need a union and giving good solid reasons to stay
My future problem, and that of the reps, will be that we will have management executive actions, managment will take apart all past agreements (Attendance Procedures etc) and over time my arguments will just disappear and they will leave the union anyway
The CWU made this agreement, I only hope that the agreement does not do the irrepairable damge I think it might.

[pcb]

Keep the Faith

"We're the first ones to starve, we're the first ones to die
the first in line for the pie in the sky
and we're always the last when the cream is shared out
for the worker is working when the fat cat's about"

"Oh workers can you stand it Oh tell me how you can
will you be a lousy scab or will you be a man?
Don't scab for the bosses don't listen to their lies
us poor folk don't have a chance unless we ORGANISE!"

United we stand divided we fall!

leaders come and go, agreements come and go.

The workers are the union!

Solidarity and Unity

[dvbuk55]

It's not about the membership abandoning the union but rather the other way round.

We have a leadership who have reneged on what solidarity is! They have not carried out the wishes of the membership. We are in a sense like the customer of a supermarket - we think we are important but in reality the supermarket is there for its own purpose, just like the CWU. There is little point in giving your business to a shop that no longer sells what you want to purchase. We want our jobs and future secured and the CWU have demonstrated they cannot provide that.

So! What do we do? Pander to this leadership and pay our dues in the same manner that this leadership pays the labour government and panders to it and is ignored in the same way that we are ignored. No thanks! You can join any union and be represented in all things except pay and conditions and lets face it with representation like we've had - anything will do.

We should also remember that more than 60,000 employees are NOT members and consequently although we pay our dues THEY too are included in any negotiations without paying a penny - having said that, this time they have come unstuck like the rest of us, except it cost them less.

[dogfood]

Sorry, but I see it the same way as dvbuk55.

[mdecwu]

I can understand the disappointment of the members with this agreement - my own branch central committee voted unanimously to recommend rejection of the offer - but walking away from the CWU at this time really is not the answer.
You CANNOT effect change from without only from within - the so called hierarchy of the union are not foisted on us, like the Leightons and Croziers of this world - we have democratic elections - we have the leadership we chose and if we are dissatisfied then we must choose to change them democratically, if you are concerned about regional bias - North/South divide then it is incumbent upon every single member to actively seek to recruit from the "60,000" non-members to deal with this. Walking away at this time in my opinion is definitely NOT the answer!!!

[dvbuk55]

I can understand the disappointment of the members with this agreement - my own branch central committee voted unanimously to recommend rejection of the offer - but walking away from the CWU at this time really is not the answer.
You CANNOT effect change from without only from within - the so called hierarchy of the union are not foisted on us, like the Leightons and Croziers of this world - we have democratic elections - we have the leadership we chose and if we are dissatisfied then we must choose to change them democratically, if you are concerned about regional bias - North/South divide then it is incumbent upon every single member to actively seek to recruit from the "60,000" non-members to deal with this. Walking away at this time in my opinion is definitely NOT the answer!!!

The 60,000 have the choice to join and choose not to. TBH why would you want to spend money on a dead horse. Like many others who are pro union you have the misconception that the membership is the union. We vote in the same manner we vote in an election. We may or may not get who we voted for but regardless of the outcome of the vote the politics override the intentions of the voter. I, for example, voted Labour with the hope that we would return to some semblance of socialism - oh how disappointed I am. Don't be fooled into thinking the membership in any shape or form have any say in negotiations because they don't.

No! It is time to stop providing the funds for those on the gravy train. Let them earn a living like the rest of us have to.

[geopip]

Without the Union we will be lost don't abandon the Union because there has been mistakes made at the very top, we are all the union and by sticking together we will always have better terms and conditions and fairer treatment than un-unionised and alone.
A no vote on the deal is simply a message to both the employer and the negotiators that they have got it wrong and the deal isn’t good enough a No vote does not mean we go straight back into strike action mode, I’m not saying that strike action isn’t possible, however the first action is to go back and talk. A strong no vote will send a clear message to Royal Mail that we their employees are not happy with the deal not the Unions leaders’ (whether or not they listen is another matter).
Unfortunately there are going to be some influential Representatives below headquarters level who will recommend the deal for their own personal future gain and not in the best interest of the membership. Remember there are a number of National Offices positions up for election in 2008 and the support of CWU HQ in any election process can be vital. There that’s my cynicism out of the way for today.

[wakkono]

i think the cwu is finished allready all its supporters are flogging a dead horse
the latest agreement just proves how much the cwu is finished if thats all they could come up with after all the support for the strikes then god help em
the cwu top management has allready attatched the noose ....... the trapdoor will open when the no vote comes in !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mark my words

[Wow-Jeekers]

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I have to say though I am on the No side of the argument for the deal, I think that if everyone left the Union then we would be in a bigger mess than we are now. Royal Mail wanted rid of the Union why should we do the job for them.

Stay in the Union - Solidarity is the key to strength.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Like almost every other reformist union, the leadership of this one is on the very best of terms with the people we have put them into position to protect us from. With the possible exception of Bob Crowe at the RMT, I wouldn't trust any of them. None of them are prepared to stand up against the Labour Party, which is a mystery since the last time a Labour Government did anything for the working class, a king was on the throne, Charlton Athletic were in the FA Cup Final, and there was still rationing.
The top levels of Trade Unions are full of social ladder climbers, Labour Party hacks looking for a cushy job, and one-time militants grown fat on high living at our expense. We need James Larkins' but we've got Pop Larkins'. I'm a firm believer in revolutionary industrial unionism, and the CWU is none of those things.
So why stay in it? Because of many of the people I work with who deserve a bit of hope and who weren't put on this earth to be dumped on by sharks like Leighton, Crozier, Hayes, Ward, Blair, Brown, Thatcher and that whole host of wasters whose actions tell us they think we're here to be used and then dumped. My dad was a good Union man (NUR) and a lay preacher and he was fond of saying, "The answer to the question, 'Am I my brothers keeper?' is 'Yes. You are your brothers keeper, which is why you should be in a union." So I won't be throwing my hand in with the CWU despite being very aware that the leadership are trying to sell us out and present us with a turd tied up with a pretty bow. I'm for standing up and fighting Royal Mail and that shower on the PEC who marched up to the top of the hill, then deserted the ranks.
Don't leave the CWU! Its our union, not theirs.

[evilc]

I can see dvbuk55 point and I can also see andy2007's point also, but primarily if the members resign from the cwu, then it is odds on we will certainly get shafted, especially as that is what the dynamic duo want a non-unionised workforce.

When the time comes to choose the candidates for the places that hayes and ward hold, have a branch meeting and reccommend a different candidate, and hopefully then new candidates will get their jobs just like what happened to keggie and johnson.

Do not let leighton and crozier win by us in fighting( not publicly anyway)

[Malatesta1954]

We've come along way from no rise in pensionable pay at all just a lump sum. We''ve have got the Union back in everything that happens in the workplace. If you can't negotiate what you want locally use the IR Framework. Royal Mail told their managers this was the end of the CWU after 3 days of strikes we would all drift back to work but we are still here our powder is dry to fight another day. Crozier said he would only talk to the Union to spell out the facts not negotiate. Crozier said we were overpaid now he's offering us more pay all pensionable. Crozier wanted to steal £1.6 billion from our already earned pensions he's been caught with his hands in our pockets and said "it's a fair cop guv". Royal Mail were going to withdraw from MTSF now it's in the first paragraph of the agreement. We might have some later starts but noone loses any money. As for so called flexibility I don't know a Postie in my office who if asked to work an extra 30 minutes couldn't argue for so long it wouldn't be worth their while bothering.

Ok we haven't won on pensions but the result of the consultations will go out to ballot of all affected members and we can vote no if it's not acceptable and fight on.

The results of the joint working parties will also come out to ballot if anything at all is agreed. All right they will be discussing monthly pay but until they pay us an extra 3 weeks pay to tied us over from the last weekly pay to the 1st monthly pay.

This is not the end of the Union we haven't achieved all we want but we have stopped Royal Mail in their tracks. Our strikes were solid Royal Mail are still recovering. We need to recruit the non-members in our offices so we are even stronger next time. For the 3rd time in 4 years we have stopped Royal Mail by-passing the Union and going straight to us the members. We have stopped their executive action. We have stopped their punishment charter against our reps. Any revisions introduced during week commencing 22 October will be reviewed in line with the IR procedures.

Of course we all have issues with the way the dispute has been conducted and the information blackouts and there are parts of the agreement that are unpalitable to some but we should deal with national representatives when the time comes for re-election. We achieve nothing by throwing in our cards except allowing Crozier to claim he's snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.

This is not the end of the dispute just a victory on the way. Those who want to fight will have plenty to fight about in the future but let us capture what has been achieved.