Refused sick pay

[BillyB]

Any advice please.

Went on sick, notified line manager by text message(this is how we've always communicated, he's renowned for never answering his phone!). Told him I'd unlikely be at work for the following week and would be seeing my GP. After 4 days off sick saw my GP and was issued a 2 week unfit for work note. Messaged manager straight away to explain I'd be posting GP note in, and he would be receiving it the following day. He never once requested a phone call within this period.

Received a letter the next day from DOM saying my wages had been stopped from the first day off sick, and if I didn't phone DOM within 3 days I could be dismissed. Phoned DOM immediately, and he basically said I hadn't followed procedure, needed to attend a face to face, and suggested he could overrule the GPs note. I asked why he felt he needed to see me, and his answer was, "to resolve the issue".

I explained he had no medical training, knowledge, or qualification and I would be taking my GPs advice only on the matter. After a heated exchange he hung up! I still don't know whether I'll be receiving sick pay...

What happened to duty of care?

[woofwoof]

Get intouch with your branch if you have no local rep.As this is not the procedure for sick leave

[Lincox]

It seems to me that he has received your text message otherwise he would have contacted you sooner than after receiving your fit note. You can self certificate for a period of seven days and therefore under the terms of your contract you are entitled to sick pay. Your fit note then covers you up to the date of it's expiry.
I would send him an email or letter asking him for confirmation that you will be paid sick leave and should this not be paid you will be pursuing your claim through the small claims court on the basis of unlawful deduction of pay.

[BillyB]

Haven't received sick pay for the first week. Not even SSP. DOM's claiming it's unauthorised absence.

I will chase first week up with union rep. Can they refuse to pay sick pay even when a GP's note has been put in?

[woofwoof]

Haven't received sick pay for the first week. Not even SSP. DOM's claiming it's unauthorised absence.

I will chase first week up with union rep. Can they refuse to pay sick pay even when a GP's note has been put in?

All absences are to classed as genuine

[Creditshampoo]

In cases of suspected unauthorised absence the DOM must make several attempts to contact the OPG before marking it down as unauthorised.
He can’t override a doctors note, only occupational health.
He can’t demand a face to face for reasons to “resolve the issue” you’re too sick to come to work so you’re too sick to go into work for a meeting.
Your DOM is a joke.

[Creditshampoo]

I will chase first week up with union rep. Can they refuse to pay sick pay even when a GP's note has been put in?

No. You have a contractual right to full sick pay for 6 months over a 4 year period.

[BillyB]

Thanks for that Creditshampoo

Only attempt of contact from DOM was by letter claiming I should've phoned him. I wasn't even sure of his name nevermind knew his number!

Spoke to HR who say they've still been instructed not to pay me anything, not even SSP. Explained I'd handed GP note in but they said cannot do anything until said DOM instructs them otherwise. I've never known a company that blatantly disregards employment law like Royal Mail. Absolutely no duty of care, no interest in employee welfare.

[Lincox]

Billy
Write a letter to this DOM and send it to him by recorded delivery.

Inform him that his actions are in breach of your contract of employment and that if your sick pay is not paid to you by next pay day you will have no alternative but to seek recompense through the Small Claims Court. Also inform him that you have forwarded a copy of your letter to the DSM and the CEO Moya Greene.

A claim to the Small Claims Court is a simple and inexpensive way of obtaining what is rightfully yours. I think it costs circa £25 to file a claim up to £300. Slightly more, the more you are claiming.I believe this is refundable by Royal Mail if your claim is successful.

[feduppostie]

To be absolutely fair the standards are that you must ring the office to go sick - at my office we do not accept text messages, messages passed through colleagues it has to be a phone call where you speak to a manager or it is taken that no official notification has been made, then stay in contact to update on condition

you state 'this is the way we stay in contact' it may be but it is not the standard - technically you are unauthorised if you have not rung into the office

personally I would go and see the DOM and take it from there explain it was acceptable before but also accept this may be the way in the future

I know RM have recently tightened the standards regarding this - personally I would have been down there the day I got the letter if my wages were at risk ill or not

I don't know many other employers that would accept a text when going sick, how much more effort would it have taken to ring in at any point since you went sick?

If you have a valid sicknote you will get paid but you have to follow the procedure

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies we make it way to easy for them

[Lincox]

To be absolutely fair the standards are that you must ring the office to go sick - at my office we do not accept text messages, messages passed through colleagues it has to be a phone call where you speak to a manager or it is taken that no official notification has been made, then stay in contact to update on condition

you state 'this is the way we stay in contact' it may be but it is not the standard - technically you are unauthorised if you have not rung into the office

personally I would go and see the DOM and take it from there explain it was acceptable before but also accept this may be the way in the future

I know RM have recently tightened the standards regarding this - personally I would have been down there the day I got the letter if my wages were at risk ill or not

I don't know many other employers that would accept a text when going sick, how much more effort would it have taken to ring in at any point since you went sick?

If you have a valid sicknote you will get paid but you have to follow the procedure

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies we make it way to easy for them

I agree with all you are saying, however the fact remains that this manager has made no attempt to contact the employee after three days of no show. It is absolutely clear that he did pick up this text message but is using the system to NOT contact the employee in order that he can use the process to show his authority and cause more distress to someone who is off sick by deducting wages/sickness benefit. If you have any sort of respect for employees and have any sort of man management skills you do not treat people like this when they have made an honest attempt to contact you and followed this up with a doctors certificate prior to one even being necessary.

[feduppostie]

To be absolutely fair the standards are that you must ring the office to go sick - at my office we do not accept text messages, messages passed through colleagues it has to be a phone call where you speak to a manager or it is taken that no official notification has been made, then stay in contact to update on condition

you state 'this is the way we stay in contact' it may be but it is not the standard - technically you are unauthorised if you have not rung into the office

personally I would go and see the DOM and take it from there explain it was acceptable before but also accept this may be the way in the future

I know RM have recently tightened the standards regarding this - personally I would have been down there the day I got the letter if my wages were at risk ill or not

I don't know many other employers that would accept a text when going sick, how much more effort would it have taken to ring in at any point since you went sick?

If you have a valid sicknote you will get paid but you have to follow the procedure

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies we make it way to easy for them

I agree with all you are saying, however the fact remains that this manager has made no attempt to contact the employee after three days of no show. It is absolutely clear that he did pick up this text message but is using the system to NOT contact the employee in order that he can use the process to show his authority and cause more distress to someone who is off sick by deducting wages/sickness benefit. If you have any sort of respect for employees and have any sort of man management skills you do not treat people like this when they have made an honest attempt to contact you and followed this up with a doctors certificate prior to one even being necessary.

I also agree with you I was looking at this that the manager and the DOM are 2 separate people - so while the manager got it as far as the DOM is concerned no contact has been made - a phone call logged on the call record on the first day of absence would stop this immediately - people need to follow procedure to protect themselves

[Lincox]

Is it not your line manager that you have to contact? The DOM has been informed by the line manager probably on the day the employee text his message. It is therefore the DOM that is playing the asshole by not contacting the employee by phone or getting the line manager to ring him. This isn,t about procedure (which I accept has not been fully adhered to) but a nasty piece of work trying to make someone else's life a misery for the pleasure of it.
I would like to know whether the DOM or the Line Manager have followed procedure by not trying to find out why an employee has not attended work. After all he might have died, been in an accident, practically any scenario. No these two nasty bits of work new exactly what they were doing.

[feduppostie]

Lincox agreed but at the end of the day this could have been avoided with one phone call

we have to help ourselves

[Lincox]

I do agree with that.
Just one thought. I can understand a deduction of earnings up until the receipt of the Doctors Fit Note. There should be no permanent penalty for the remainder of this employees illness surely?