Can I voice record disciplinary meeting?

[tonyt450]

Hi as title suggests, I have a conduct meeting about a track I delivered and possibly wilful delay. The 2 reps are both away on leave and I've been told that that's tough and will have to go alone and get it out of the way. So I said not a chance and if that's the case I will take my phone to record the meeting (not video).

Dom said if I was to do this he will get proceedings going for my dismissal straight away.

I know I'm allowed someone in the meeting with me but I want a rep not a random colleague. What would anyone suggest

[Creditshampoo]

I can’t say for sure but I always record meetings secretly as an insurance policy. No idea if it’s worth anything but I say it’s better having it than not. Your dom won’t give permission.
You’re entitled to have a rep with you, contact your branch the meeting can’t go ahead until you’ve sorted it

[Mobey]

You'd have to be careful with recording someone without their knowledge.

[POSTMAN]

Stating the obvious but you need to contact your area rep as soon as possible.How long are your reps off for?
Your manager is being a cock, it's not tough he's talking bollox.I personally wouldn't go in without a rep I would refuse and I would get it delayed but I can't tell you to do that.

I wouldn't bother with the recording thing as screws wouldn't like that unless you get their permission of course which they won't give.
Recording and talking bollox don't go together.

You know that there are 2 types of delay, most mangers just go for the wilful one, which one do you think yours is...

MAIL INTEGRITY - SAFEGUARDING CUSTOMERS’ MAIL

UNEXCUSED DELAY TO MAIL

The responsibility for safeguarding the mail and giving it prompt and accurate treatment is one of the most important duties of all employees.

Various actions can cause mail to be delayed, e.g. carelessness or negligence leading to damage or loss of customers mail, breach or disregard of a rule or guideline. Such instances are to be distinguished from wilful delay although they may also be treated as misconduct, and in more serious instances could also result in dismissal.

Furthermore, Royal Mail does recognise that genuine mistakes and misunderstandings do occur and it is not the intention of the Business that such cases should be dealt with under the Conduct Code beyond counselling for the isolated instance. The key is that employees should do their job to the best of their ability and, if in doubt, ask for their manager’s advice and guidance.

WILFUL DELAY

Wilful delay of mail is classed as gross misconduct, which if proven could lead to dismissal. The test to determine whether actions may be considered as wilful delay is as follows:

Deliberate action taken by an employee that causes mail to be delayed is called wilful delay. Where proven, such breaches of conduct can lead to dismissal, even for a first offence; indeed Wilful Delay is a criminal offence and can result in prosecution.

[fishtank]

No rep=no meeting.
If anything that might lead to dismissal is involved contract your branch.

[loverman shabba]

if its not possible to take a rep in with you at least take a fellow postie in with you to listen in. has happened before in my office

[tonyt450]

The "wilful delay" was a tracked where I couldn't access letterbox due the door being locked and having no access to either the doorbell or letterbox. Management said I could have shouted or climbed over said fence to deliver packet or p739 .

[greengiant]

The "wilful delay" was a tracked where I couldn't access letterbox due the door being locked and having no access to either the doorbell or letterbox. Management said I could have shouted or climbed over said fence to deliver packet or p739 .

And if you had injured yourself climbing over the fence? If you cannot get access, then you cannot get access! I take it you scanned the tracked item as not delivered no access? But definitely put off attending the meeting until you can get union representation. Surely it cannot be "wilful delay" if an address is innaccesible?

[GT85]

If you can't access the delivery point ....Scan item as not delivered no access fill out a p739 making sure you tick the box that says the date time on this card is when we attempted delivery. We couldn't leave this card then due to restricted access. Return the packet to the office as normal and put the card back in the frame (hope it doesn't go missing) and deliver it along with the mail when you can gain access.

If you have not been trained on this how can you be expected to know the correct procedure ?

Good luck

[tonyt450]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah took a picture a couple days after put no interest in looking. Done all the said above but customer has panties in twist.

[gb93]

If everything is as you say don't get yourself too stressed & bothered over your weekend.
Stay calm don't let them force you into doing something stupid (which includes secretly recording meeting).
Just calmly let the dom know you want a rep at meeting if he says you cannot tell him you would like that in writing or said in front of trusted witnesses.
Don't think meeting will take place after that but main thing is don't get over worried no serious action will be taken against you for what you have described.

[rehabron]

This has been done in previous case other than RM where the employee had hidden the recording of the conversation at her disciplinary hearing in which she proceeded to an Employment Tribunal for compensation for her dismissal. The employer argued their case that it was illegal to record the disciplinary meeting without their knowledge and the decision was given in the favour of the employer. However it was taken further to EAT who overturned the previous decision that the recording of disciplinary meetings without the employers knowledge was not illegal.
As mentioned by others on this matter I agree that you should not enter into any disciplinary meeting without accompaniment and this meeting should be postponed until a representative is available as RM is breaching your statutory legal right of representation at grievance and disciplinary meetings.
For further info on the recording of meetings:Employers
An employer should also be particularly wary of employees recording disciplinary or grievance hearings without their knowledge. The Employment Tribunal has previously in certain circumstances permitted these recordings, such as where the Employer is a public body. Employers should take preventative measures by amending Employment Contracts to explicitly exclude employees from recording hearings and ensure the decision making body retains its confidential notes of the discussions, but which are not disclosed unless matters proceed to a hearing. An Employment Tribunal would not want to hinder open discussion by the decision maker for fear of being recorded, but it has happened.

[worktotime]

The "wilful delay" was a tracked where I couldn't access letterbox due the door being locked and having no access to either the doorbell or letterbox. Management said I could have shouted or climbed over said fence to deliver packet or p739 .

the first thing no meeting with no rep it doesn't matter what the dim says you are entitled to it so f**k him , or contact your area rep asap , didn't you just scan item as no access on your pda and return to office ? and as for him telling you to climb over what a cock he is , if theres no access just endorse the mail and tell him why ? then its his job to go and have a look and contact the persons at the address. but NO don't record it.

[Lounge Lizard]

The "wilful delay" was a tracked where I couldn't access letterbox due the door being locked and having no access to either the doorbell or letterbox. Management said I could have shouted or climbed over said fence to deliver packet or p739 .

the first thing no meeting with no rep it doesn't matter what the dim says you are entitled to it so f**k him , or contact your area rep asap , didn't you just scan item as no access on your pda and return to office ? and as for him telling you to climb over what a cock he is , if theres no access just endorse the mail and tell him why ? then its his job to go and have a look and contact the persons at the address. but NO don't record it.

And if you didn't scan the item as "no access" was that because you didn't know that was the correct procedure ?

[Brandy]

I am really surprised secret cameras havent been installed yet to record the appalling way the posties are spoken to and treated by the RM managers.