COMPARING 9/9/07 DOC TO NOW!!

[lovejoy]

JUST AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW

Comparison between Royal Mails ‘final offer’ delivered to the CWU on 9/0/07 and the document that has now been ratified by the PEC.

Scope of Agreement

They wanted to exclude LAs from the pay deal.
• The CWU have turned this around!

Removal of Night Shifts in DOs

Royal Mail wanted ALL night shifts in delivery offices removed
• This position has now changed and city centre units and offices with a high proportion of firms deliveries will now be able to negotiate the retention of night work.

Retarding Delivery start times

Royal Mail wanted all start times to be post 6am.
• Units will now be able to negotiate pre 6 am starts based on arrival patterns.
• Grandfather rights have been secured for any member affected by the change going as far back to those who moved to later starts post May 2005!
• Original Saturday start/finish times will now be reinstated

Efficient Summer Scheduling

Royal Mail wanted this to be introduced with immediate affect.
• Discussions / Trials will now take place with the full involvement of the CWU at all levels.

Flexible Working

Royal Mail wanted ‘total flexibility introduced with would have completely sidelined the union. Staff would have faced their hours being changed by up to 2hours with little or no notice and with no agreement by the CWU.
• The majority of Royal Mails flexible working plans have been either shelved or put into the joint working groups for further discussions.
• The agreement gives the possibility for Royal Mail to ‘ask’ staff to flex their attendance times by up to 30minutes. The national union have made it clear that this is no way compulsory.
• Monthly pay and annualised hours were high on Royal Mails agenda. Negotiations on these two subjects will now take place over the coming months. All members will get a vote on any deal that is reached on either monthly pay or annualised hours!

ESOS Scheme

Royal Mail wanted to close the scheme with no involvement from the CWU.
• ESOS will now close but a joint audit will take place to ascertain whether or not members are due any further payments.

D2D and Election Material

Royal Mail wanted to remove the payments for D2D items and also lift the current cap on the number of items per week
• The CWU have pushed Royal Mail back on this issue and now after negotiations all delivery staff will get a vote if any agreement is reached
• Although some members may be worried that this issue will come around again it is clearly a significant move from Royal Mail

Conduct Code, Attendance Procedure, Personal Performance

Royal Mail wanted to make drastic changes to the conduct code, attendance procedure and introduce new ‘personal performance’ standards.

• Through negotiations the CWU have forced Royal Mail back on all of these issues.

MTSF

This is perhaps the most important of all our agreements. It covers pay and job protection as well as payments for EVRs. Royal Mail wanted this agreement completely replaced.

• The union have moved Royal Mail from this position. The agreement will now be ‘reviewed’ and the pay and modernisation agreement even contains the MTSF agreement in several places. This movement from Royal Mail holds a great significance to us all.

New IR Framework

This agreement has served the union well down the years and the aim of Royal Mail was to replace the agreement and in affect sideline the union

• A joint working party will now look at the IR framework and the union will have full input into these negotiations.

PENSIONS

Royal Mail wanted the union to sign up to radical pensions proposals as part of the Pay 2007 agreement.

• The union have succeeded in de-coupling the pensions from pay
• A formal 60 day consultation will now take place
• Unlike CMA the CWU have not sold out and given agreement to what Royal Mail want
• Members will have the chance to give input throughout the 60 days (formal still to be finalised)
• ALL pension scheme members will get a vote on any final proposals
• This means if needs be Royal Mail letters, Parcelforce, POL, Customer services, ROMEC and Quadrant will be able to challenge this issue as a united force.

PAY

We know that pay has never been the main issue in this dispute but again the offer now represents major movement from Royal Mail. We all remember the constant letters from Royal Mail telling us the offer is the offer.
• 5.4% from October 1st offers in our opinion better value going forward than Royal Mails ‘final offer’ of 2.5%.
• Any pay rise in the future will have a higher cash value on top of the 5.4%
• Put simply with 5.4% there will be more money in your pocket every week and every year going forward

UNION INVOLVEMENT

Perhaps the crux of the whole dispute was the fact that Royal Mail wanted to remove the union from the workplace. Through the strength of members action we have been able to completely turn this around.

Just look at the two documents. The second document has the words and influence of the CWU stamped all over it.

LIKE I SAID JUST ANOTHER VIEWPOINT

[jafferpants]

Let me just take one point. The union have got rm to remove pensions from the pay deal and will negotiate this seperatley. If you think that will alter rm's origanal plans for the scheme you my friend are from the planet janet.Let me make a prediction for you. the final salary scheme will close around next april and you will be put in a c a r e scheme. Rest assured i will come back on site at the appropriate time and say I TOLD YOU SO. I'll leave the rest of your take on it for the others to pull apart.

[pickaname]

Just seems like the CWU have stalled RM's plans rather than reached a settlement...it looks as though the union were primarily worried about their erosion rather than members benefits. (btw - its not 5.4% pay increase as the extra 1.5% probably wont get paid making the pay increase 2.7% per annum)

Im seriously considering stopping my subs in the new year if this 'deal' goes through or when the fees go up. Boosts my pay by £12 per month :)

Just another opinion.

[lovejoy]

Let me just take one point. The union have got rm to remove pensions from the pay deal and will negotiate this seperatley. If you think that will alter rm's origanal plans for the scheme you my friend are from the planet janet.Let me make a prediction for you. the final salary scheme will close around next april and you will be put in a c a r e scheme. Rest assured i will come back on site at the appropriate time and say I TOLD YOU SO. I'll leave the rest of your take on it for the others to pull apart.

so when the ballot papers for pensions come out we'll have the chance to vote no won't we as will our colleagues in other businesses in RM group. So there will be no need to say i told you so because i'll also vote no against any pensions proposal changes.

[saru]

From Royal Mail's own statement as I posted yesterday. Read & decide which they want - http://www.news.royalmailgroup.com/news ... royal_mail

 Full cooperation and support on the deployment of new technology.
 Ensuring all our peoples’ paid work hours are utilised
 Covering for one another within a unit - and within paid hours - to help absorb colleagues’ absence or an increase in workload
 Rebalancing the normal working pattern to reflect the traffic profile (such as higher or lower levels of mail on certain days of the week)
• The union’s support for the company’s overall proposed pension reform. Royal Mail’s proposals include:
 Closing the final salary scheme to new members from 31 January 2008 and replacing it with a Defined Contribution scheme
 Protecting our existing employees’ pension pots built up before 1 April 2008, including keeping the link to final salary
 Introducing a Career Average Defined Benefit scheme for our existing employees from 1 April 2008
 Moving the normal retirement age from 60 to 65 from 1 April 2010.
 Existing members will be able to take the pension built up prior to April 2010 at age 60 or at any time after that paid in line with current scheme rules. Pension built up after April 2010 will be paid on an actuarially reduced basis if taken before 65 or unreduced if taken at 65.
• As before, the potential for our people to earn £800 in dividends from the Colleague Share scheme this year if the company hits its targets.
• As before, a 50:50 share of any additional efficiency savings above target made this year.
• An increase of 1.5% in basic pay from April next year, paid on delivery of the agreed reforms.

We've already been sold down the river by Crozier & Leighton. If this deal gets agrees, Billy Hayes & Dave Ward will find out what it is like to be shafted. I believe RM will push everything in that they want to as soon as the threat of IA is over!

[jafferpants]

Let me just take one point. The union have got rm to remove pensions from the pay deal and will negotiate this seperatley. If you think that will alter rm's origanal plans for the scheme you my friend are from the planet janet.Let me make a prediction for you. the final salary scheme will close around next april and you will be put in a c a r e scheme. Rest assured i will come back on site at the appropriate time and say I TOLD YOU SO. I'll leave the rest of your take on it for the others to pull apart.

so when the ballot papers for pensions come out we'll have the chance to vote no won't we as will our colleagues in other businesses in RM group. So there will be no need to say i told you so because i'll also vote no against any pensions proposal changes.

you can vote no till your blue in the face and it wont make any difference it will come in. Here's a little inside information for you. The actuary's for the scheme are already doing the paper work

[lovejoy]

Let me just take one point. The union have got rm to remove pensions from the pay deal and will negotiate this seperatley. If you think that will alter rm's origanal plans for the scheme you my friend are from the planet janet.Let me make a prediction for you. the final salary scheme will close around next april and you will be put in a c a r e scheme. Rest assured i will come back on site at the appropriate time and say I TOLD YOU SO. I'll leave the rest of your take on it for the others to pull apart.

so when the ballot papers for pensions come out we'll have the chance to vote no won't we as will our colleagues in other businesses in RM group. So there will be no need to say i told you so because i'll also vote no against any pensions proposal changes.

you can vote no till your blue in the face and it wont make any difference it will come in. Here's a little inside information for you. The actuary's for the scheme are already doing the paper work

I think you'll find that the actuarys have to do the paperwork legally because of the laws around consultation period but hey your the one with the inside info

[lovejoy]

From Royal Mail's own statement as I posted yesterday. Read & decide which they want - http://www.news.royalmailgroup.com/news ... royal_mail

 Full cooperation and support on the deployment of new technology.
 Ensuring all our peoples’ paid work hours are utilised
 Covering for one another within a unit - and within paid hours - to help absorb colleagues’ absence or an increase in workload
 Rebalancing the normal working pattern to reflect the traffic profile (such as higher or lower levels of mail on certain days of the week)
• The union’s support for the company’s overall proposed pension reform. Royal Mail’s proposals include:
 Closing the final salary scheme to new members from 31 January 2008 and replacing it with a Defined Contribution scheme
 Protecting our existing employees’ pension pots built up before 1 April 2008, including keeping the link to final salary
 Introducing a Career Average Defined Benefit scheme for our existing employees from 1 April 2008
 Moving the normal retirement age from 60 to 65 from 1 April 2010.
 Existing members will be able to take the pension built up prior to April 2010 at age 60 or at any time after that paid in line with current scheme rules. Pension built up after April 2010 will be paid on an actuarially reduced basis if taken before 65 or unreduced if taken at 65.
• As before, the potential for our people to earn £800 in dividends from the Colleague Share scheme this year if the company hits its targets.
• As before, a 50:50 share of any additional efficiency savings above target made this year.
• An increase of 1.5% in basic pay from April next year, paid on delivery of the agreed reforms.

We've already been sold down the river by Crozier & Leighton. If this deal gets agrees, Billy Hayes & Dave Ward will find out what it is like to be shafted. I believe RM will push everything in that they want to as soon as the threat of IA is over!

It is a sad day if ANYONE makes their decisions in life based on Royal Mails propaganda

[jafferpants]

trust me lovjoy if it came out how my knowledge of our pension scheme came to be i would get strung up .

[ulster postie]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

[lovejoy]

trust me lovjoy if it came out how my knowledge of our pension scheme came to be i would get strung up .

I wouldn't want that to happen but of course they will be making preperations. They had new IR framework drawn up, they had new attendance, coduct code and MTSF drawn up. Doesn't mean it will come in.

And whatever the pros/cons of pay agreement it is right that we vote seperately on it. It is not fair on us to take action to defend others pensions and it is not right that the other workers (parcels, POL etc) cannot join us.

5 years ago Royal Mail spent millions of a new network structure that removed 'in theory' half the mail centres. That never even got off the drawing table

[lovejoy]

i was asked to take I/A because we the union where in dispute with R.M. on a number of issues.
THE PENSION
EARLY STARTS THRU EX/ACTION
D2Ds
FLEXIBLE WORKING
PAY
We are now being asked to accept the deal which billy and dave agreed WHY
There seems to be more unagreed I.E. put on the back burner for another day
WHY DID THE P.E.C. GO ALONG WITH THIS, I THINK A, B & H CASE COULD FOLLOW. WHEN SENIOR OFFICERS REFUSED TO PUT THEIR NAMES TO THIS DOCUMENT IT TELLS ME SOMETHING.
REJECT THIS DEAL TELL BILLY AND DAVE TO GET BACK IN THERE AND GET THE DEAL WE ARE ENTITLED TO.

Yes offices have refused to sign doc and PEC members voted against it. The only one who has spoke out is Dave Warren. Where are the rest of them?? If they were dead against the deal surely they'd be speaking out ?? Surely if they wanted to protect us then they would not sit on their hands??

Or is it because the national elections are around the corner and it is merely political positioning?? I would like to be proven wrong but I say the silence from them says it all!!

[arsenalbob]

i'm leaning towards lovejoy on the pensions debate. i think RM now understand the considerable damage i/a can do and they wont want to risk it again. i've a feeling they will see sense and leave existing members alone and concentrate on new recruits which, after all, will be the majority in years to come

[ulster postie]

WE NEED A NEW G.S. D.G.S. AND P.E.C.
GET THE MEMBERS BACK IN CONTROLL
REMEMBER EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS

[lovejoy]

WE NEED A NEW G.S. D.G.S. AND P.E.C.
GET THE MEMBERS BACK IN CONTROLL
REMEMBER EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS

I'd agree we need some new blood in some places but where is it coming from ????