The issues why you voted yes are still the same

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 13 Oct 2017, 17:01

Royal Mail’s decision to take the union to the High court today shows the desperation of the company.

They know they have lost the support of the workforce and the CEO of Royal Mail along with other senior board members have now become a laughing stock in which the members totally reject their vision for the company.

This dispute is about Royal Mail’s attack on pensions which will see everyone lose out who are currently in the DB scheme and the longer you have till your 65 the harder you are hit on your pension.

For those who joined after 2008 Royal Mail want you to remain in a pension which will not give you a reasonable pension in your retirement.

On Pay, Royal Mail have put £375 lump sum based on the union accepting trials on the multi bundle option , later acceptance meaning later starts with a last letter at 17:00 , walk ownership the forerunner to franchising deliveries ,
Automated hours data capture being used too resource and automatic issuing of stage 1 &2 attendance warnings.

The £375 will only be consolidated into pay after every office have introduced the above following the trials. Thereafter pay rises will be based on performance related pay linked to WIPGHs.

All of the above will mean massive cuts in processing as the final dispatch in Mail centres moves back to maximise Mail on the first wave , the almost complete removal of Area Distribution, with deliveries moving start times too 0900 until 17:00 , you will not need as many stand alone collections.

On top of this they want Walk Ownership which removes seniority and union influence on revisions as now change will be based on you as you will own the walk and will be committed to clearing daily without cut offs and based on seasonal variations of hours linked to clocking in an out via automated hours Data capture.

So Royal Mail May well win their request for an injunction based on insisting that the union use mediation process. Courts are rarely supportive of the unions and workers.

However unless they start conceding on some of the big ticket issues at the heart of this dispute than we will be taking strike action in December and we will win.

So all members need too stay united and realise this is a 15 round fight we have won the ballot and all the arguments , Royal Mail May win a reprieve today but we will win if we stay united.

Don’t listen to some egos on some other site who are not in the fight and are not going to be affected and clearly are trying to mislead members.

We are the union if we stick together we will never be defeated ! Rise up feel proud and let’s stay united !

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Oct 2017, 17:42

I have to say though dingo, though you are sincere, I do not think we will be out before Christmas AT ALL. there is 5 weeks of talks under mediation. (which hasn't even started yet). and they are to be extended by 2 weeks if there is progress. (they've already made a compromise, which will be deemed as 'progress') so that makes it SEVEN weeks. 2 weeks notice of impending strike, takes us to the 18th December. which in my view will be pointless by this time as the pressure will be just about finished, so I think we can write Christmas strikes off the list.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Oct 2017, 17:56

also dingo, as I stated in a previous post, but I don't think it was the correct reply, can you put a header on that decision made by the judge. Dave Ward stated in the immediate interview after the ruling, that RM was awarded the injunction because it was deemed the company would suffer more damage than the union!! now we all know that this is NOT what the injunction was about. RM took us to court because it deemed our I/A to be illegal, it was about the LEGALITY of our planned strike. NOT because RM would suffer more damage than us!! bloody hell, that was the exact reason we chose to strike,,,because it would damage and disrupt them, that's the whole idea. can you clarify?

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:33

the mediation process will collapse

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:39

well to be fair to you, its inevitable that it will. pensions will most definitely NOT be agreed on in the next 5, 7, 9, weeks that's for sure. they might table a pay rise, but pipeline, route ownership, team working, later starts, multi bundle working etc etc are not going to be agreed.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:40

hans solo wrote:the mediation process will collapse

And last into next year

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:42

Royal Mail took us to court too gain an interim injunction which insisted the union should enter into mediation prior too calling strike action.

One of the things the Judge weighs up is by awarding an interim injunction what is the detriment both parties will face. For the union the detriment is just time and for the business it is the cost of contracts.

Remember the interim injunction normally leads too a full hearing but both parties agreed that a full hearing was not necessary as it would months later.

The CWU have also applied too the court to extend the ballot timescale of 6 months by the time of the mediation.

The judge awarded costs against the CWU in terms of paying for Royal Mail’s legal costs and court costs.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:46

dingo wrote:Royal Mail took us to court too gain an interim injunction which insisted the union should enter into mediation prior too calling strike action.

One of the things the Judge weighs up is by awarding an interim injunction what is the detriment both parties will face. For the union the detriment is just time and for the business it is the cost of contracts.

Remember the interim injunction normally leads too a full hearing but both parties agreed that a full hearing was not necessary as it would months later.

The CWU have also applied too the court to extend the ballot timescale of 6 months by the time of the mediation.

The judge awarded costs against the CWU in terms of paying for Royal Mail’s legal costs and court costs.

I thought our union reps were saying the RM were taking cwu to court at great cost to the company. Have I read this wrong?

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 13 Oct 2017, 18:50

so how much has it cost us then.?? ffs, that's added insult to injury!!

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:08

The CWU had too fight the injunction the members expected us too.

High Courts rarely award in favour of unions in interim injunctions.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:11

dingo wrote:The CWU had too fight the injunction the members expected us too.

High Courts rarely award in favour of unions in interim injunctions.

You sign an agreement and you expect to lose then you take them to court with members money because you expect to lose

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:28

Royal Mail expected too lose the industrial action ballot but still spent thousands on propaganda.

The CWU believe that we could prove there had been external mediation and therefore Royal Mail had no case.

The Judge however awarded in Royal Mail’s favour even thou he was concerned that Royal Mail had waited so long before requesting the mediation process and could have done before the ballot.

However regardless of the injunction , Royal Mail either makes changes to their plans including on pensions or there will be strike action.

Royal Mail have indicated that they want too resolve the issues and will move torwards the CWU’s position but Will it be enough ?

One thing is certain We will now get a better deal than Royal Mail had offered before the ballot result or we will strike.

Post by **cloherty1976** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:39

dingo wrote:Royal Mail expected too lose the industrial action ballot but still spent thousands on propaganda.

The CWU believe that we could prove there had been external mediation and therefore Royal Mail had no case.

The Judge however awarded in Royal Mail’s favour even thou he was concerned that Royal Mail had waited so long before requesting the mediation process and could have done before the ballot.

However regardless of the injunction , Royal Mail either makes changes to their plans including on pensions or there will be strike action.

Royal Mail have indicated that they want too resolve the issues and will move torwards the CWU’s position but Will it be enough ?

One thing is certain We will now get a better deal than Royal Mail had offered before the ballot result or we will strike.

That's how it works then
As special agent oso used to say it's all part of the plan

JKSmudge · Post by **JKSmudge** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:42

It would be nice if the union leaders put their hands up and admitted they completely screwed up by not checking the small print. Do we not have a legal department/solicitor/anyone who is responsible for checking that the IA was legal ?

This charade makes the union look like amatuerish buffoons and many people are p*ssed off with the union for this

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 13 Oct 2017, 19:50

JKSmudge wrote:It would be nice if the union leaders put their hands up and admitted they completely screwed up by not checking the small print. Do we not have a legal department/solicitor/anyone who is responsible for checking that the IA was legal ?

This charade makes the union look like amatuerish buffoons and many people are p*ssed off with the union for this

The union TRIED to conform with the clause. What more could they have done?