Flexing up

Postiefromwales · Post by **Postiefromwales** » 07 Oct 2017, 20:26

Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks

Post by **osgoody1970** » 07 Oct 2017, 20:34

you cannot be forced to flex up, it has to be with your agreement. I always had a prior engagement when asked to flex up, funny that!!!!

Post by **CPTNemoUK** » 07 Oct 2017, 20:38

Postiefromwales wrote:Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks

The manager talking through is backside. You have a start finish time. They can not make you go over that. If you think you will go over use the over running procedure. ( some one will explain to you what it is because I will be honest I am a bit drunk. Don't want to give the wrong info)

.

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 08 Oct 2017, 02:56

It is mentioned in the agreements but it’s only with mutual agreement so you must agree with management and it’s only really supposed to be in special circumstances such as a lorry breaking down on the way to your office.
So no, he can’t make you work past your time. Put a grievance in

iHateD2Ds · Post by **iHateD2Ds** » 08 Oct 2017, 07:06

CPTNemoUK wrote:
Postiefromwales wrote:Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks
The manager talking through is backside. You have a start finish time. They can not make you go over that. If you think you will go over use the over running procedure. ( some one will explain to you what it is because I will be honest I am a bit drunk. Don't want to give the wrong info) .

It's a mutual agreement ,you give them 30 mins and then they will you back 30mins.
Some of my work colleagues fell for it and was told they would make back their 30 min by finishing early on Friday.
Guess what, they never did!

Tell them you have family commitments.

enskied · Post by **enskied** » 08 Oct 2017, 15:11

Postiefromwales wrote:Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks

Another lying Gaffer.

He /She should say to you " look, I am in a bind, I would like you to give me an extra 30 mins today if you can. I will then give you a 30 mins back asap in the next week. Would you do this for me please ?"
Then you have a little chat to see if it is agreeable.

But they never put it like that.

Post by **Lincox** » 08 Oct 2017, 16:45

The flexibility Agreement is based on Royal Mail ASKING you if you are prepared to work an extra 30 minutes when there has been an unusual occurrence which has delayed the mail such as a vehicle braking down which is delivering the mail to the delivery office, or perhaps a power cut at the delivery office. It is NOT applicable if you go to the DOM after bagging up and saying that you are cutting off because you are unable to complete. That would be an individual event and not an unusual occurrence which effects the whole delivery office.
The agreement also states that individual circumstances will be taken into account, therefore if you are unable to flex up because you have pre-arranged appointments, child-minding problems etc then you cannot be forced to work over your contracted hours.

hans solo · Post by **hans solo** » 08 Oct 2017, 20:37

CPTNemoUK wrote:
Postiefromwales wrote:Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks
The manager talking through is backside. You have a start finish time. They can not make you go over that. If you think you will go over use the over running procedure. ( some one will explain to you what it is because I will be honest I am a bit drunk. Don't want to give the wrong info) .

drunk at 8.30 lightweight

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 08 Oct 2017, 21:51

enskied wrote:
Postiefromwales wrote:Hi
I'm new here can't find any info on this so apologies if it's already been discussed
Our manager has told us it's in our contracts to flex up (work an extra 30mins part our time). Even if we haven't left early. Some people have child care issues in the office and would need notice if this is an official agreement. Please could anyone point me in the right direction about flexing up? I.e are there any official agreements with regards to this. We feel we are going to be bullied into this next week with no evidence that we should/shouldn't be doing so. Thanks

Another lying Gaffer.

He /She should say to you " look, I am in a bind, I would like you to give me an extra 30 mins today if you can. I will then give you a 30 mins back asap in the next week. Would you do this for me please ?"
Then you have a little chat to see if it is agreeable.

But they never put it like that.

Haha you know I have never once heard it put like that!

Funny thing is, i'd probably go along with it if it ever was!

It's just another case of an agreement being made on specific wording between union and RM, to then be hidden away and warped beyond its original meaning.

And the warping was DEFINITELY foreseen.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 10 Oct 2017, 15:48

I believe that they have to "Give" you this 30 mins back within the week..... so that definitely doesn't work with a Saturday

I'd have thought the only day they could probably ask you if you don't mind flexing ..... would be a Monday (because it probably would be possible to get the 30 mins back on Tuesday)

A lot of DOMs use it as a Bullying Tactic.... "Well you'll have to Flex for 30mins if you think you're going to go over"

As previously mentioned just tell them you've got a previous engagement. If they ask what it's for tell them to mind their own business.

What's your Unit Rep got to say about it?

Post by **Lincox** » 10 Oct 2017, 22:28

Dorset Plodder wrote:I believe that they have to "Give" you this 30 mins back within the week..... so that definitely doesn't work with a Saturday I'd have thought the only day they could probably ask you if you don't mind flexing ..... would be a Monday (because it probably would be possible to get the 30 mins back on Tuesday)

A lot of DOMs use it as a Bullying Tactic.... "Well you'll have to Flex for 30mins if you think you're going to go over" As previously mentioned just tell them you've got a previous engagement. If they ask what it's for tell them to mind their own business.

What's your Unit Rep got to say about it?

He should be telling the DOM that is improper use of the flexibility agreement. Workload is not a reason for flexing unless it is for a reason that could not have been reasonably expected ie van breaking down, and would have an impact on all of the unit, not an individual because his/her workload cannot be done within his/her personal contracted hours.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 11 Oct 2017, 15:33

Lincox wrote: He should be telling the DOM that is improper use of the flexibility agreement. Workload is not a reason for flexing unless it is for a reason that could not have been reasonably expected ie van breaking down, and would have an impact on all of the unit, not an individual because his/her workload cannot be done within his/her personal contracted hours.

I hear what your saying Lincox, but it happens. You know how DOMs interpret the Rules to suit themselves.

I've had this one tried on me.... after I used the over running procedure. It was a Relief Manager who probably thought he'd try the usual BS he obviously got away with in his own office. He checked my empty slots worked out the call rate and gave me the lecture about how long it takes to sort a box of letters and a box of flats

I said, "I'm not interested in these figures they don't mean a thing, you're just wasting my time". He said "I have to tell you this, you've got to listen"! We must have wasted nearly half an hour arguing about it FFS.

Post by **Lincox** » 11 Oct 2017, 18:10

Dorset, I know exactly what you mean, I went through hell with my line manager, even threatened to move me from my sub office in to a city office if I was not prepared to work over. Took it to grievance which carried on for over a year due to Royal Mail's unbelievable and disgraceful procedures, during which I was constantly bullied by this LM and his colleagues, and even the local rep was in tow with him. However, I took it right through to appeal and the eventual outcome was that I had been treated differently to my colleagues, because what the LM was doing was paying O/T to those who were prepared to work over and yet because I wasn,t he insisted that I flex up. My question was, why were they not being asked to flex up by 30 minutes rather than being paid OT. He was on a loser and shortly after was moved elsewhere. You do not have to put up with this crap and as long as you know you are in the right you should stick to your guns and not be intimidated by these shysters.

LaggyBand · Post by **LaggyBand** » 11 Oct 2017, 21:14

Wait, flexibility agreement can't be used to beat you down when you're complaining about workload? That's bloody gold, that.

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 14 Oct 2017, 10:21

Lincox wrote:Dorset, You do not have to put up with this crap and as long as you know you are in the right you should stick to your guns and not be intimidated by these shysters.

Thanks for the encouragement Lincox.

I'm OK now, it's just that it takes a while for Posties to become experienced at dealing with Management's Bullying Tactics. During that time it can be very frustrating, and stressful.

After you've learned the lessons there's still other Posties in your Office who are going through the same bullshit.

IF you've got a Good Local Rep it must be a godsend, but if he's on the Manager's side I don't know how you'd cope, as a New Postie. Training is Non-Existant and most Work Time Coaches do bugger all for their £30 a week.

Personally I just used to mention a problem to the Local Rep (knowing bugger all would get done about it) and then phone the Area Rep, who was much more effective at sorting problems!

The first question they always ask is,"Have you taken this up with your Unit Rep"?

I believe this Forum is brilliant at finding out what you are entitled to, and the advice of other Posties (that may well have already been through the same problems) is invaluable!