Agenda for growth - section 5.4 "external mediation"

[stephen500]

Note the "external mediators" "will be appointed from a jointly agreed panel managed by ACAS and will have no other connection with Royal Mail or the CWU."
The time frames, taking into account reviews of the evidence, combined come to five weeks.
If our union has not followed these procedures, the High court will, imho rule for Royal Mail.
The High court have never stood on the side of the worker.
Ignoring a High court injunction would have serious consequences for our union.
An injunction would, I am guessing, stop action, whilst the procedures are then followed.
I would suggest, Strike action could continue (after the high court injunction had been lifted) after the five week mediation period.
As previously said, if our union believes that Royal Mail, have been in breach of this agreement, why have we never sought remedy in the court?
The relevant section is below, along with the link to the pdf of the agreement.

"5.4 External Mediation
External Mediation will apply in the following circumstances:
• If a local disagreement remains unresolved after Stage 3 of the IR Framework there will be 7 days for national intervention, after which it will automatically be referred immediately for external mediation.
• Where the national parties fail to reach agreement on a point of principle relating to existing agreements that has been referred to them, it will be referred for external mediation after a period not exceeding one month from it being initially tabled by either party.
• Where there is a national disagreement relating to a matter that is not covered by existing collective agreements, it will be similarly referred if an agreed way forward is not found within one month.
• Where unballoted industrial action continues beyond 48 hours.
The External Mediator will be appointed from a jointly agreed panel managed by ACAS and will have no other connection with Royal Mail or the CWU. The mediator will be provided with all relevant papers and evidence, together with clear statements from each party on the issue that is in dispute and on which a recommendation is sought. Both Royal Mail and CWU will provide a representative to work with the Mediator to assist in understanding the issue in dispute, the background and the implications of any decision before it is made.
In considering the dispute and making recommendations, the External Mediator will take account of any regulatory and legal requirements, the terms and spirit of the Agenda for Growth, Stability and Long Term Success Agreement, other relevant national agreements, the needs of customers, the universal service obligation, and the need for appropriate efficiency supported by a climate of sustainable trust and collaborative decision making.
The External Mediator will produce recommendations within two weeks of having received all relevant papers and having met the representatives of each party. Although the recommendations from the mediator are nonbinding the expectation is that both parties will use the mediator’s recommendations to resolve their differences. The parties will meet within one week of the mediator’s recommendations to review the outcome and confirm their response. If they both agree, the resolution arising from the recommendations will be implemented without further delay. If one or both parties are unable to agree in whole or in part with the recommendations, they will advise the other of the reasons for this, indicate what they are prepared to agree instead and there will then be a further two weeks during which there is a final opportunity to reach agreement before the process is concluded.
In the event that the process concludes without agreement, the parties will write to each other to notify their intentions.
The parties may agree to extend any of the timescales above by agreement."

[BeamishStout]

I cannot see how an external mediator will be able to come to any sort of realistic conclusion in a couple of weeks if they have no idea how the business works. More like a couple of months at best if this is what has to happen. But if it does take an extended time frame then the CWU needs must have all its ducks lined up in a row.

[stephen500]

I cannot see how an external mediator will be able to come to any sort of realistic conclusion in a couple of weeks if they have no idea how the business works. More like a couple of months at best if this is what has to happen. But if it does take an extended time frame then the CWU needs must have all its ducks lined up in a row.

There are strict time frames. Which can be extended if all parties agree.
CWU say they have had external mediators (See Terry Pulligner's latest CWU video (cwu facebook page).
But was this the same as having parties agreed by ACAS?
If the CWU has followed procedure, it will be fine, if NOT the High court will rule against it.

[LaggyBand]

I cannot see how an external mediator will be able to come to any sort of realistic conclusion in a couple of weeks if they have no idea how the business works. More like a couple of months at best if this is what has to happen. But if it does take an extended time frame then the CWU needs must have all its ducks lined up in a row.

There are strict time frames. Which can be extended if all parties agree.
CWU say they have had external mediators (See Terry Pulligner's latest CWU video (cwu facebook page).
But was this the same as having parties agreed by ACAS?
If the CWU has followed procedure, it will be fine, if NOT the High court will rule against it.

I cannot realistically believe the Union's lawyers would have missed this clause. No way. They would have followed it. It surely has to be fine. Maybe this is just about buying time.

[Phantom]

This is all based on if either side don't break an agreement but can't agree on change. If executive action is used and in this case RM are closing the pension plan without agreement from the Union then in reality the Union could take RM to the high court.

[wannabeek]

Surely we can just use RM management's own argument against them.

In their propaganda they continually said that should we vote yes then previous agreements are revoked.

Ok. So they are.

Get back to serious discussions with the union, not your conniving lawyers, and then hopefully we can get this resolved.

Otherwise we'll be on the gate.

[LaggyBand]

Inspiring words but I don't think the court will care about those leaflets. It'll just look at the agreement, decide if it's binding, has someone broke it, and does it now need to be followed.

Surely you agree that if they get the injunction, the strike will definitely not happen.

And if that's the case, it's all about this injunction.

[gary1975]

There will be some pissed off members if the cwu has not covered this ground and had legal go right through it before serving notice, also the fact Royal Mail will go through the courts they have no intention of getting resolution.

[LaggyBand]

There will be some pissed off members if the cwu has not covered this ground and had legal go right through it before serving notice, also the fact Royal Mail will go through the courts they have no intention of getting resolution.

This is exactly why I fear the plan all along was to be at this point, right now. Avoid the talks. Let them ballot. They serve notice. Use the clause. Get injunction. Warn the members. Strike called off. Accept crappy deal.

Someone convince me otherwise.

[Gangham_style14]

There will be some pissed off members if the cwu has not covered this ground and had legal go right through it before serving notice, also the fact Royal Mail will go through the courts they have no intention of getting resolution.

This is exactly why I fear the plan all along was to be at
this point, right now. Avoid the talks. Let them ballot. They serve notice. Use the clause. Get injunction. Warn the members. Strike called off. Accept crappy deal.




Someone convince me otherwise.

Funny enough I said to my colleague who I van share with weeks ago, I bet RM have some wild card up their sleeve, and we actually said they will want us to strike so they can force a crappy deal on us .....

[Lincox]

It looks like that if CWU are forced to go down this route then the strike can only be deferred for a period of 5 weeks. At that point they notify RM 14 days before new strike. This will still enable them to strike during the busiest time before Christmas.

[LaggyBand]

There will be some pissed off members if the cwu has not covered this ground and had legal go right through it before serving notice, also the fact Royal Mail will go through the courts they have no intention of getting resolution.

This is exactly why I fear the plan all along was to be at
this point, right now. Avoid the talks. Let them ballot. They serve notice. Use the clause. Get injunction. Warn the members. Strike called off. Accept crappy deal.




Someone convince me otherwise.

Funny enough I said to my colleague who I van share with weeks ago, I bet RM have some wild card up their sleeve, and we actually said they will want us to strike so they can force a crappy deal on us .....

But the thing is, there must've been foresight on both sides. That clause was mentioned on these boards weeks ago. I'm sure of it. It was like a bad smell hanging around. No one really addressing the black and white of it, just a casual mention here and there.

So the Union must've known that this is where we would be. They must have known about this clause. Which means their lawyers are confident they can defend this injunction claim.

So basically, this is gonna rest on two sets of confident lawyers, battling it out and we see who wins.

Either that or one side knows they are looking iffy, and in an attempt to save face, cuts a deal more favourable to the other side.

If the deal gets made before court, I think we know what happened.

[D man]

Great start for the union if they have missed this one doesn’t make you feel very confident in them does it

[holly123]

F..ked over again

[P739]

Royal Mail are going to the courts to stop us from going on strike it's in this agreement..My point is why did the CWU not go to the courts when Royal Mail were cearly breaking so many points in this agreement routinely...