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FT / PT seniority conundrums

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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

With talk of a revision happening, and potential F/T positions becoming available, the men have inevitably started hypothesizing. There's a few issues, we aren't sure of, so thought I would ask on here.

*Edit 2: Re-worded to hopefully ameliorate any misunderstandings.*
Postie 1 = FT , 10 years service, collections driver wishing to revoke driving responsibilities.
Postie 2 = PT , 12 years service, no drivers license. Highest in PT seniority.
postie 3 = PT , 11 years service, driver. 2nd highest in PT seniority.

Situation #1 : Postie 2 does not hold drivers license. Consensus is position could be given to Postie 3.
- I'm of the opinion Postie 2 would still get the position.

Situation #2 : Postie 1 currently having issues with left leg. Some kind of repetitive strain in thigh/knee due to pressing clutch down all the time ( he does a collection ). He's looking to revoke his RM driving responsibilities - he drives an automatic car, before anyone pursues that avenue. He's worried he may get put back down to P/T though, as it was less than six months ago he was given F/T - apparently there is this 'six month rule' ? - and he cannot fulfill the F/T duty thats required, even though he has only recently been put on this collection as it's a vacant duty. If history repeats itself, and there is a re-pick, he - being the least senior F/T - will likely be left with the last duty again, which is a backshift collection.
- I'm of the opinion Postie 1 would simply become a F/T reserve walk. I'm positive there are no official 'roles' for OPG's, so can't fall victim to discrimination.

Situation #3 : To complicate matters ever slightly, Postie 3 ( thinking he may get made up instead of Postie 2 ) isn't happy. If Postie 1 is removed from driving due to medical condition, and stays F/T, he will become - presumably - a reserve walk, leaving Postie 3 with his old backshift collection, which is not preferred.
- Perhaps a bit more tricky. I think Postie 1, if stated by doctor that he should not drive as it exacerbates his condition, will stay F/T and be a walking reserve. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything potential new F/T could do, and would just have to suck it up.

There are my three conundrums we have a daily discourse on. Anyone care to join? :chuckle
Last edited by Alexei on 18 Sep 2017, 23:17, edited 4 times in total.
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POSTMAN
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by POSTMAN »

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I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

Hah! I was hoping I had made it clear enough :chuckle
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POSTMAN
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by POSTMAN »

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I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

Anything specific you don't understand, or is it the whole thing?

I've put a small edit in under first sentence.
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world class male
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by world class male »

Alexei wrote:With talk of a revision happening, and potential F/T positions becoming available, the men have inevitably started hypothesizing. There's a few issues, we aren't sure of, so thought I would ask on here.

*Edit: #1 Senior P/T = highest in P/T seniority, #2 Senior P/T = 2nd highest in P/T seniority*

Situation #1 : #1 Senior P/T does not hold drivers license. Consensus is position could be given to next senior P/T with driving license.
- I'm of the opinion #1 P/T would still get the position.

Situation #2 : Least senior F/T currently having issues with left leg. Some kind of repetitive strain in thigh/knee due to pressing clutch down all the time ( he does a collection ). He's looking to revoke his RM driving responsibilities - he drives an automatic car, before anyone pursues that avenue. He's worried he may get put back down to P/T though, as it was less than six months ago he was given F/T - apparently there is this 'six month rule' ? - and he cannot fulfill the F/T duty thats required. If history repeats itself, he - being the least senior F/T - will be left with the last duty again, which is a backshift collection.
- I'm of the opinion he would simply become a F/T reserve walk. I'm positive there are no official 'roles' for OPG's, so can't fall victim to discrimination.

Situation #3 : To complicate matters ever slightly, previous discussed F/T - if he was P/T - would be #3 in P/T seniority ladder. So #2 P/T ( thinking he has a real chance being made up, as #1P/T can't drive ) isn't happy. If least senior F/T is removed from driving, he will then become a reserve, putting the potential new F/T ( with more seniority ) on a backshift collection, which is not preferred.
- Perhaps a bit more tricky. I think the current backshift driver, if stated by doctor that he should not drive as it exacerbates his condition, then he will stay F/T and be a walking reserve. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything potential new F/T could do, and would just have to suck it up.

There are my three conundrums we have a daily discourse on. Anyone care to join? :chuckle
is #1 on p&l where the other is already a driver?
did #2 driver get employed as a driver/postman or been there enough years where driving didn't matter and not a contract issue?
#1 & #2 answer will be revealed in the next episode of Soap :left:
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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

world class male wrote: is #1 on p&l where the other is already a driver?
did #2 driver get employed as a driver/postman or been there enough years where driving didn't matter and not a contract issue?
#1 & #2 answer will be revealed in the next episode of Soap :left:
Yes, the most senior PT is the passenger on his P&L ( he doesn't have a drivers license ).
2nd senior PT ( who drives ) did not drive when he joined company - it wasn't a requirement at the time, unlike nowadays where a drivers license is essential.
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chrisj
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by chrisj »

How did postie1 got made FT before postie 3?

I don't know about 6 months rule but there is a case against making him FT when he was not ideally qualified but whose fault is that? He is already FT.

Non driver postie can be excluded but the most senior should get made up in a general revision; regardless of driving ability
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fishtank
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by fishtank »

Postie 1 will need a referral to OH in order to decide what he's capable of and whether reasonable adjustments can be made. If he has a full-time contract he can't lose it , If he's only been made up to full-time on a temporary basis and hasn't had his full-time contract confirmed he could lose this if there isn't a full-time non-driving role for him. There is no "six month rule" as such. Other than that seniority applies unless like collections the role specifically requires a driving license.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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k979aaa
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by k979aaa »

Can of worms springs to mind but this will keep happening even more in the future.
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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

Postie 1 was made up to FT because 2 & 3 didn't want it, staying PT suited their personal situations better.

Well my colleagues keep hypostatizing that there is a 'six month trial period' and if anyone is not up to the standard, then the contract can be revoked. I've not seen anything regarding the subject, so dismiss it. He thinks he remembers getting a letter saying "temporary change of conditions," but isn't sure. I'll push him onto HR.

Well Postie 1 wasn't made up to cover a collection, he was made up because X FT's are required and he now completes the staffing. It's only in the past few weeks the manager has shifted him on to that duty, which has now exacerbated his ailment. There are plenty more senior drivers, his worry is if revision & re-pick goes ahead, collection duties will be the last to be chosen, and he will effectively be last pick, but if he gets an OH referral advising no driving, then as he cant drive and there would be one duty remaining ( likely to be a collection ), he will be replaced by a suitable PT who is willing.
Alternatively, it means a more senior driver to him will land on the -dreaded- backshift collection, through no fault of their own, and he basically skips ahead of any FT drivers.
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chrisj
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by chrisj »

I hope postie1 is a permanent full timer not temporary. It is tough for posties 2 & 3; they did not apply to be full time because at the time it suited them to be part time.

Postie1 full time status cannot be revoked just because there is general revision - snooze you lose.

If there are no other ft positions available then tough!
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Alexei
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FT / PT seniority conundrums

Post by Alexei »

chrisj wrote:I hope postie1 is a permanent full timer not temporary. It is tough for posties 2 & 3; they did not apply to be full time because at the time it suited them to be part time.
I have a hunch he will be permanent. I think he will push for this OH assesment to be removed from driving, and avoid any repercussions. After all, he wasn't made up to specifically fill a driving role, it was just to fulfil the FT staffing requirements.
I think the same will happen to Postie 2. Made up to FT as revision calls for the extra body. It would be different if there was a severe lack of drivers available, I imagine in that case, they could pass over Postie 2 and offer it to Postie 3.
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