Pensions dc and db

[anini]

In 2008 Royal Mail closed the db scheme to new entrants the CWU never accepted this yet next year it's going to be 10 years for the dc scheme. If a remember correctly, the pension issue was de-linked to the 2007 strike by Billy Hayes and again the issue was kicked into the long grass during the 2010 strike. I want a workforce that gets the same benefits for doing the same job and unfortunately the CWU have let down the dc members. My question is will the CWU and the db members fight for a better pension for dc members if RM offer an improved offer to the db members. If we do accept a two tier workforce then our unity will be gone and RM will divide and win. It's almost been 10 years for the dc scheme yet it still makes me angry that Billy Hayes allowed us to become a two tier workforce whilst not causing a headache for New Labour who never supported our strike in 2007. What your view?

[jack~jack]

The words from our managers mouth " Billy Hayes wouldn't let this strike happen. So even the managers thought he was a soft touch.

[gary1975]

Why are DB members being offered13% and DC members getting only 10% ?

[datasaint]

The whole point of the strike along with other issues is to address this imbalance.

Terry Pullinger has said it in many of his videos that now is the time to get a pension solution for all.

[anini]

Because db members are in a better scheme that pays in over 17% so they'll lose out but because the maximum contribution RM give to dc members is 9% so they'll increase it to 10%. It shows that the CWU sat on their rear ends for 10 years doing nothing. I wonder what our members in the dc scheme realise how little retirement income they'll be getting.
So sad really.
On a side note, Billy boy got elected to some Labour committee so it paid off for him but he left a hell of a lot of collateral (dc scheme members).

[chrisj]

It is bribery and another divide and rule.

Perhaps because the DBs stands to lose and DCs are just DCs; and to be fair the DC is already one of the best around.

[anini]

The whole point of the strike along with other issues is to address this imbalance.

Terry Pullinger has said it in many of his videos that now is the time to get a pension solution for all.

What, after waiting 10 f@#$?+! years and ONLY when the db pension was given notice to close.
We were never given a reason why they've waited so long. What about the 10 lost years for the dc members?

[anini]

It is bribery and another divide and rule.

Perhaps because the DBs stands to lose and DCs are just DCs; and to be fair the DC is already one of the best around.

RM was in public hands and Gordon Brown had just taken over as PM. He wanted to call a General Election. The unions were the only ones still fully supportive of Labour as Murdoch and co had switched to the Tories. Labour wanted to kick the RM/CWU issue into the long grass in 2007. We could easily have kept the db scheme open to new entrants if we stood firm but Billy Hayes de-linked the strike and pensions. After the strikes RM offered to keep the db scheme open to existing members for 10 years but all new entrants would be in a yet unspecified dc scheme. Our momentum was gone and there was no appetite for strike action for future employees. Now almost 10 years on and with a divided workforce (on pension) the db scheme is set to close. And only now the CWU have decided to fight for better pensions for all.

[Acca Dacca]

It is bribery and another divide and rule.

Perhaps because the DBs stands to lose and DCs are just DCs; and to be fair the DC is already one of the best around.

RM was in public hands and Gordon Brown had just taken over as PM. He wanted to call a General Election. The unions were the only ones still fully supportive of Labour as Murdoch and co had switched to the Tories. Labour wanted to kick the RM/CWU issue into the long grass in 2007. We could easily have kept the db scheme open to new entrants if we stood firm but Billy Hayes de-linked the strike and pensions. After the strikes RM offered to keep the db scheme open to existing members for 10 years but all new entrants would be in a yet unspecified dc scheme. Our momentum was gone and there was no appetite for strike action for future employees. Now almost 10 years on and with a divided workforce (on pension) the db scheme is set to close. And only now the CWU have decided to fight for better pensions for all.

Ive asked this same question on here and it gets ignored

Like yours has

Union says they won't accept a 2 tier workforce or pulling ladder up on future posties

They already did imo

[Lincox]

The DB Scheme for all contributors took large hits after 2008. Firstly all pension earned after 2008 became payable at 65 years of age rather than 60. Secondly and the most important point is that it is now a career average scheme rather than a final salary scheme. This means that if your current salary is £20k per year and your final salary is £40k a year your pension would be based on approx £30k a year rather than the final salary of £40k.
It is possible that if earnings continue to be suppressed, a DC scheme may not be the loser that many think they will be. All said, a DC scheme does depend on growth in investments over the period of your membership and also depend on annuity rates when you come to buy your pension benefits, although again there are flexible ways of drawing money when you retire from your DC benefits.

[Spedley]

Part of the reason the DB is in such bad shape is because those in the DC scheme aren't paying into it. You can't fix any of it until it is all unified back into one.
It shouldn't have happened in 2008 but at the time the change looked inevitable with RM always having trouble with pensions. Now it looks like a deliberate assault on all pensions, not because it is unaffordable but because it is an easy cost to cut.

[yellowbelly]

Dear RM, I've not had a pensions forecast yet, can you tell me where it is?

Oh yeah, I forgot, I won't get one because I'm a member of the DC scheme which at any point in the
future could potentially be worth a big fat zero or only be enough to buy a couple of stamps each week when I retire.......

RM haven't even proposed paying equivalent sums into the DC and their new all singing, dancing, smoke and mirror schemes......

My vote was confirmed as a yes about a month ago, was a yes when I received my ballot paper, was a yes when I put my cross in the box
and was a yes when I posted it.

I hope RM are listening and seriously hope that CWU will fight for parity between DC and DB members in a new scheme.

[Lincox]

Yellowbelly, if you are in the DC Scheme you can track the value of your pension online through the Zurich Insurance Group. You can also switch your investments in to different risk categories at any time of your choosing, so really if you do not actively watch the progress of your plan and act when there are signs of possible down turns in the stock markets, you can't really blame Royal Mail if the value of your investment falls, particularly as you near your retirement age. Personally I would be very wary of possible down turns as we approach exiting the european market and would be looking to switch my investment in the short term in to a less risk category. If shares do take a downturn you can then switch back into them once they have fallen with the view of making more money once they pick up again. Simple economics of buying and selling shares. Sell high, buy low.

[Martin Walsh]

It is important to understand the context of what happened. In 2008 we had taken 8 days of strike action and when Royal Mail imposed later starts i.e. Moving units from before 0600 to 0600 Liverpool and London went out unofficially for a few days.

There was a settlement on Pay and Mod which had been decoupled from pensions. On Pensions the union had secured that all your service before 2008 would still be calulated as final salary at the point of your retirement which added 1.6 billion into Royal Mail costs. Royal Mail closed the scheme.

Their was not an appetite to have another strike just on Pensions and certainly not on a scheme which at that point no one was part off. I know because at the Northampton Briefing I appealed for such action but by than there were loads of proposals on Mail Centre closures in the NW , Midland and Anglia and obviously people wanted to defend jobs and not at that stage have a further dispute on Pensions.

Royal Mail introduced an unagreed DC scheme and because there were no members of the scheme at that point there was no negotiation with the CWU.

Without action Royal Mail would not improve or change the DC scheme.

In 2012 under the Agenda for Growth when we had the industrial action ballot on privitastion where we agreed the legal protections and we extended our pension guarantee too 2018 the union managed to improve the DC scheme in a Minor way whaere we ended the lowest tier and increased Royal Mail contributions on the other tiers. We also got agreement on CWU trustees who were members of the DC scheme. We did not take any strike action in 2012 and got that agreement.

Roll on to 2017 Royal Mail want to close the DB scheme and this CWU is balloting and what we are demanding is one scheme so we can lift those who are in the DC into a better scheme that is a massive statement of unity and the unions belief of wanting to improve the pensions for all.

You might argue why has it taken 10 years well let's be clear without a strike ballot Royal Mail would not have listened and even now they are proposing that we still have a two tier pension plan. Would we have got a strike like this over the last 10 years ? I doubt it and the 2010 dispute was t was about major change and Royal Mail not paying for change in the future.

It also important people understand that not everyone who is in the DC scheme has joined after 2008. Remember the government introduced auto enrolment into pensions a year or so. Ago and that resulted into everyone who had taken their DB scheme pension early and was still working in RM would automatically be auto enrolled into a DC scheme. This is why there are 14 thousand of the DC scheme paying the nursery rate of 1% and Royal Mail pay 1%.

So it is frustrating that it has taken 10 years but we would not have got a strike just on this issue alone and the first opportunity we had this union is demanding and ready to strike to have one pension scheme improving all Royal Mail staff.

Contrast that with Royal Mail who want two schemes knowing that staff in the DC scheme will have pension proverty in retirement . The latest DC schemes will require over 100 thousand pound to buy an annuity pension of £5000 per year pension ! Can anyone live on that in retirement especially as the state pension is moving to 68 for anyone below the age of 48.

[Acca Dacca]

I really really appreciate that reply dingo as the silence had been deafening yo the point it looked like everyone had something to hide.

Thanks for laying it out for me and trying to at least help me understand the reasonings behind certain actions or non actions as it may be.