There is no fence to sit on in this dispute. Every single vote matters. VOTE YES

[TrueBlueTerrier]

[wannabeek]

Anybody remember how the govt recently changed rules about voting to strike for it to be legal? I remember it meant a much higher percentage had to vote.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Ballots will have to achieve at least a 50% turnout of eligible union members, with a majority voting in favour of strike action.

[Tman]

No, that nice Mr MacDonnell says all that doesn't matter any more.

[jab0510]

I want to vote No but I'm not in the union. Why doesn't Royal Mail do a counter ballot and include everyone?

[wannabeek]

50% is that achievable? I know many people who just can't be arsed to tick a box. Any idea on the stats in the last ballot?

[wannabeek]

I want to vote No but I'm not in the union. Why doesn't Royal Mail do a counter ballot and include everyone?

Oh my word. Join the union if you want to vote in a union decision. Otherwise just carry on and ignore it all.

[chickenwittle]

Our area rep was in office today said wants all ballot papers handed to office rep and names ticked off so that everyone votes , good idea , every office should do it in my opinion as some people just don't bother voting regardless of what's at stake .

[lambe720]

The trade union threatening industrial action at Royal Mail over pension cuts is planning on curbing pension benefits and raising the retirement age for its own workforce.

The Communication Workers Union will this week ballot its 100,000 members at the privatised postal operator for industrial action, in a long-running dispute that the union says is about workers’ employment, standard of living and retirement security.

Royal Mail wants to replace its defined benefit pension scheme, which guarantees a certain level of income in retirement, with a less generous arrangement. The company currently pays about £400m a year into pension pots, but says its contributions could more than double, to above £1bn, if no changes are made, as a funding surplus is expected to run out next year.


However, as the CWU fights to protect retirement arrangements for Royal Mail workers, its own employees are facing a reduction in their old-age benefits, according to a briefing document from March of this year, seen by the Financial Times.

The CWU’s proposed changes were outlined in the document, which was distributed internally. They include increasing the retirement age from 60 to 65, closing three existing final salary schemes to future accrual, and introducing a new scheme based on career average earnings.

“Over a number of years now, as in virtually every other organisation, the CWU has not been immune to the spiralling costs of pensions and the combined cost of these three schemes in terms of deficits, accrual rates, admin and the benefits due, are no longer sustainable,” the document said.

“However, unlike most employers, the union remains committed to providing all our employees with an affordable alternative that will still provide decent pensions,” it adds.


As the CWU fights to protect retirement arrangements for Royal Mail workers, its own employees are facing a reduction in pension benefits © Andrew Milligan/PA
The CWU did not reveal how many people would be affected by the proposed changes, but said the situation was different from that at Royal Mail.

“Royal Mail are proposing a DC [defined contribution] scheme which will slash benefits. We are proposing an excellent DB scheme which has the full support of the GMB,” said the CWU.

Defined benefit pensions provide a guaranteed level of income in retirement, typically based on final salary and length of service. Under defined contribution schemes, employees bear all the investment risk, and have no certainty of their eventual pension income.

The CWU is proposing calculating employees’ retirement income on a career-average basis, rather than final salary, which typically results in a less generous pension for those who see salary growth later in

The GMB, which represents CWU employees, said it would not comment while discussions were ongoing.

The CWU proposals would result in a reduction in expenditure of £980,000 a year, according to the March 2017 document.

Annual returns filed by the CWU show it made staff pension contributions of £3.1m in 2016. But the three schemes had a combined funding deficit of £19.4m at the end of last year, more than double the £7.2m black hole recorded at the end of 2015.

According to the latest filing, the CWU had net assets of £21.5m at the end of last year, while its combined pension liabilities stood at £126.4m.

John Ralfe, an independent pension expert, said the CWU was supporting “very large underlying pension liabilities” relative to its financial size.

“If was a private company, alarm bells would certainly be ringing,” he said. “Most private sector companies have already closed their DB schemes to existing employees altogether, to reduce cost and risk, and moved to DC.”

[TrueBlueTerrier]

50% is that achievable? I know many people who just can't be arsed to tick a box. Any idea on the stats in the last ballot?

2009 yes 61,623 76%
no 19,207 24%

67% turnout

2007
72019 ballot papers-returned
56339 voted yes 78%
and 15624 voted no.

This was 62% turn out.

So for both big strikes since RMChat started we busted the government's new rules.

[chickenwittle]

It will be even bigger this time round due to increase in social media

[yellowbelly]

Our area rep was in office today said wants all ballot papers handed to office rep and names ticked off so that everyone votes , good idea , every office should do it in my opinion as some people just don't bother voting regardless of what's at stake .

Not an expert but this might leave us open to some sort of action by RM trying to declare vote invalid.
For goodness sake let's not score an own goal now, it would be a disaster for all CWU and workforce efforts to be wasted by inadvertently breaking the rules!!!

From Govt. websites:

'Code of Practice: Industrial Action and Notice to Employers'

"The law requires your union to ensure that your vote is accurately and fairly counted
and that you are able to vote without interference from the union or any of its
members, officials or employees and, so far as is reasonably practicable, in secret."

and

"Properly organised ballots

A ballot for industrial action must:

be supervised by a qualified independent person (a ‘scrutineer’ - often someone from an organisation like the Electoral Reform Society) appointed by the union if over 50 members are being balloted
be held before the union asks members to take or continue taking action
be open to all members the union wants to take action
be a postal ballot where members vote by marking a box on a voting paper and return it in a prepaid envelope
include information on what the ballot is about and where to post your vote"


Won't ballot papers get delivered to our home addresses anyway?

[k979aaa]

Our area rep was in office today said wants all ballot papers handed to office rep and names ticked off so that everyone votes , good idea , every office should do it in my opinion as some people just don't bother voting regardless of what's at stake .

You cannot make people do anything vote or otherwise best to engage them with thoughts but telling people how to vote is like NORTH KOREA or even worse HAVE YOUR SAY with your manager dictating which box to tick and no names of managers!

[chickenwittle]

Think my point has been missed , ballot papers go to home address we make our vote in private , seal envelopes , give to union rep , name ticked off list as voted

[GT85]

I want to vote No but I'm not in the union

Not judging you, its personal choice after all, but wondering why you wish to vote No ?