Alternative Industrial Action?

snapbee · Post by **snapbee** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:25

Strike action is a guaranteed failure, we need to think outside the box.

I accept that work to rule will not work, however, if the union were to call for non delivery of downstream access mail, it would hurt RM, it would hurt our competitors and it would not cost us wages.

I accept this would be a conflict of interest for our union, who represent UK Mail.

Any thoughts?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:28

You would be taken off pay and sent home for refusing to deliver DSA, simple as.
Might as well have a BBQ at the gate...No?

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:33

I think there's a lot in what you say.

However :-

snapbee wrote:Strike action is a guaranteed failure

it isn't, and hasn't been.

snapbee wrote:... and it would not cost us wages.

Not so sure about that one.

I'm sure it would be illegal in one manner or another - but thats not to say its not the right course of action.

Of course, if we were to strike downstream access would be hit anyhow.

But still - fair post I'd say.

Post by **bigal383** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:39

Wake up smell the coffee ffs if we dont do this wave bye bye to your half decebt job youll get nothing .

snapbee · Post by **snapbee** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:40

But, if we're on the gate with a BBQ that's our decision, if they decide to send us home then that is their decision. We aren't refusing to deliver the mail or any packets, we're only refusing to deliver competitors mail and as letters are "a declining income" we take away their argument.
Surely that would gain us more support than a strike of our decision.

Can you imagine the negative publicity RM would get if it was reported that they sent us home for refusing to deliver competitors mail?

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:41

nice to think outside the box though, maybe others could come up with some ideas. I personally think the only one that would work that doesnt affect our own pay is work to rule, i understand that *some* wouldnt follow with this, but i think nowadays many people would... maybe the union should try this as phase 1 of IA, and if that isnt having affect then escalate to walk outs ?

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:43

snapbee wrote:we're only refusing to deliver competitors mail and as letters

once RM accept it into the system, its not "competitors mail" any longer...

Norsegold · Post by **Norsegold** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:44

snapbee wrote:Strike action is a guaranteed failure, we need to think outside the box.

I accept that work to rule will not work, however, if the union were to call for non delivery of downstream access mail, it would hurt RM, it would hurt our competitors and it would not cost us wages.

I accept this would be a conflict of interest for our union, who represent UK Mail.

Any thoughts?

Why would work to rule not work?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:45

The union looked into this pre-privatisation and the legal advice they received was that it would be considered a breach of contract, a legal ballot would protect you from dismissal but the employer would be entitled to withdraw pay on the basis that you were only performing part of your duties. Unlike a part day stoppage the employer could argue that the industrial action affected your entire day and therefore would be entitled to stop a full day's pay for refusing to deliver DSA. How happy would you be delivering everything else for free and how delighted would Royal Mail be?

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:49

snapbee wrote:
Can you imagine the negative publicity RM would get if it was reported that they sent us home for refusing to deliver competitors mail?

They aint gonna send home 110k posties (or whatever the current total is) - it won't happen. Question is - yet again - is if its legal. Which it won't be. Then the question is, are the union going to abide by arbitrary, punitive and anti trade union laws - or do what they have to to protect the interests of their members ?
To date the answer has been to abide by the arbitrary, punitive and anti trade union laws. TPTB/the Tories have us over a barrel.
Part the reason the union does this is that they know (amongst other things) that union funds could be seized.
Are the union doing anything, therefore, to secure members money ? Big Big question that one. Because if they aren't then we don't own that money. Or rather, we own it so long as we behave ourselves. ie. we don't own that money. They own it. And that money is our money. No money, no freedom.

sweepster70 · Post by **sweepster70** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:50

snapbee wrote:But, if we're on the gate with a BBQ that's our decision, if they decide to send us home then that is their decision. We aren't refusing to deliver the mail or any packets, we're only refusing to deliver competitors mail and as letters are "a declining income" we take away their argument.
Surely that would gain us more support than a strike of our decision.

Can you imagine the negative publicity RM would get if it was reported that they sent us home for refusing to deliver competitors mail?

On the gate is official industrial action, being sent home for refusing to deliver dsa is willful delay and is a sackable offence. If you walk out to support your suspended colleagues, it will be unofficial industrial action.
Much safer to be away from work/picketing on official industrial action.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:51

Norsegold wrote:
Why would work to rule not work?

It's very dangerous.
Members end up dismissed for refusing to carry out work that isn't specifically protected by the instructions in the ballot, it's a legal minefield. Do you know what a work to rule means? I've been involved with the union for more than 20 years and I'm not sure.

snapbee · Post by **snapbee** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:55

If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.

sweepster70 · Post by **sweepster70** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:56

snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.

Of course it's legal, it has to go through the courts.
The conservatives have made it so much harder, but it is legal.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 22 Aug 2017, 19:57

snapbee wrote:If anybody believes there is any form of legal industrial action, you are mistaken. Any form of industrial action including strike, balloted or not, is illegal.

Yep - and with all this current bollocks re. members current addresses, this current ballot will, more than likely, be invalid as well.