Lapsing

[robbertwhitton]

So love the 6 hour delivery while lapsing.......makes a day of it ???

[eastie]

So love the 6 hour delivery while lapsing.......makes a day of it ???

you don't have to do it,
Why do the lapsing and then moan??

[robbertwhitton]

I take your point,just making a point,wasn't really moaning,after 36 years,I'm not going to let it bother me and certainly not going to beg for 20 mins docket,which I may or may not get depending on how early I finished on a certain day my Dom would pick out,am sick of doing battle with them, how do you judge if your not going to complete?who knows what will happen on your round? Smaller units seem to be under the microscope somewhat and not recognised as being efficient and keeping the budget in check,but fully understand your comments,it's tiring!

[worktotime]

just tell him / her that you are working your contracted hours and not going over so what would you like me to do , simple , don't let these f***ers grind you down to do extra work .

[hans solo]

there is no banking of hours agreement work to time and tell them to do one

[eastie]

Hardly ever lapse as work to my time.
Don't fprget that runners will be moaning soon finishing early as data from PDA's are going to be checked and if you finish early you will have more added to your round

[worktotime]

Hardly ever lapse as work to my time.
Don't fprget that runners will be moaning soon finishing early as data from PDA's are going to be checked and if you finish early you will have more added to your round

sooner the better imo , , as its these people that put the ones doing the job right under the spot light and pressure ,

[k979aaa]

Why moan about it on here grow some balls and fuckem!

[postslippete]

Actually I completely understand. We have an over-running procedure that is positively medieval and really needs updated by the CWU to bring it up to the present day times to reflect RM's slash and burn strategy. Because it seems to be a scenario that gets played in our office on a regular basis. For example, it did'nt make sense to lapse on a busy day and the reason I heard from management is that we lapse because of staff on sick

And its like, well I certainly don't intend to take the lapse when my own delivery will take me way past my finish time. So erm... what are you going to about it Mr manager?? Manager: well, what if you leave a few packets?? Me: well, that will still leave me with another hour or so past my finish time, so what about a couple of loops instead? Manager: Well, it would better if you leave a few packets me: Ok, what if I leave a few packets for you and ring you up whilst I am still out on delivery to remind you of what I have got left, so that I don't work past my time? Manager: well, then its a performance issue isn't it? Me: Why is it a performance issue?; Have I actually been measured on my performance? Manager: Well, everyone else seems to be managing Ok Me: But how are they performing Ok if they are working past their finish time?

This discussion went on and on and its like the manager was trying to bully me into taking work that I really didn't want to do. This is not how you expect a 1st class company to be run with managers trying to bully and coerce staff in taking the work. In the end, the manager got the DOM who then tried piling on some additional pressure, but it didn't work DOM: well, there are not many packets on the frame Me: Well, thats why I would rather not leave any packets but leave a few loops instead as its busy mail wise. What do you want me to do, because its getting late now and we can keep talking about this or we can actually do something. Would you rather me take all the mail out with me or leave a few loops?? DOM: Well we are short-staffed, could you leave one loop instead of two perhaps??

And its like I am being FORCED to work past my time. I stuck to my guns and made the point that because I was stood there disagree-ing with this manager for 10 minutes that I would need more than one loop taken off. In the end I got my own way, but boy was that hard work!!

You know is it any wonder staff just come in early, don't take breaks, ignore managers like the plague and get on with it, being forced to take overtime even though they don't really want it. Most posties don't want the hassle of it all and its about time the CWU started to get a grip on Royal Mail's practices. But they never do. They leave it all for the individual postie to sort out. Its almost like we pay them subs and they are there but they are not there if you know what I mean??

[osgoody1970]

and this for me, is the problem with the lapsing procedure, it just gives managers a green light to bully and cajole posties into working over their time and that's not what the lapsing procedure was designed to do!!!

[DGH]

Actually I completely understand. We have an over-running procedure that is positively medieval and really needs updated by the CWU to bring it up to the present day times to reflect RM's slash and burn strategy . . . Most posties don't want the hassle of it all and its about time the CWU started to get a grip on Royal Mail's practices. But they never do. They leave it all for the individual postie to sort out. Its almost like we pay them subs and they are there but they are not there if you know what I mean??

This is the crux of the matter. The 'procedure' just breeds unnecessary confrontation. Under-pressure managers, who in fairness to them generally do not have the staff available to cope, will attempt to cajole, bluster or bully to get the mail out. It is of course wrong that they do that but the procedure in no way promotes reasonableness.

[k979aaa]

Actually I completely understand. We have an over-running procedure that is positively medieval and really needs updated by the CWU to bring it up to the present day times to reflect RM's slash and burn strategy. Because it seems to be a scenario that gets played in our office on a regular basis. For example, it did'nt make sense to lapse on a busy day and the reason I heard from management is that we lapse because of staff on sick

And its like, well I certainly don't intend to take the lapse when my own delivery will take me way past my finish time. So erm... what are you going to about it Mr manager?? Manager: well, what if you leave a few packets?? Me: well, that will still leave me with another hour or so past my finish time, so what about a couple of loops instead? Manager: Well, it would better if you leave a few packets me: Ok, what if I leave a few packets for you and ring you up whilst I am still out on delivery to remind you of what I have got left, so that I don't work past my time? Manager: well, then its a performance issue isn't it? Me: Why is it a performance issue?; Have I actually been measured on my performance? Manager: Well, everyone else seems to be managing Ok Me: But how are they performing Ok if they are working past their finish time?

This discussion went on and on and its like the manager was trying to bully me into taking work that I really didn't want to do. This is not how you expect a 1st class company to be run with managers trying to bully and coerce staff in taking the work. In the end, the manager got the DOM who then tried piling on some additional pressure, but it didn't work DOM: well, there are not many packets on the frame Me: Well, thats why I would rather not leave any packets but leave a few loops instead as its busy mail wise. What do you want me to do, because its getting late now and we can keep talking about this or we can actually do something. Would you rather me take all the mail out with me or leave a few loops?? DOM: Well we are short-staffed, could you leave one loop instead of two perhaps??

And its like I am being FORCED to work past my time. I stuck to my guns and made the point that because I was stood there disagree-ing with this manager for 10 minutes that I would need more than one loop taken off. In the end I got my own way, but boy was that hard work!!

You know is it any wonder staff just come in early, don't take breaks, ignore managers like the plague and get on with it, being forced to take overtime even though they don't really want it. Most posties don't want the hassle of it all and its about time the CWU started to get a grip on Royal Mail's practices. But they never do. They leave it all for the individual postie to sort out. Its almost like we pay them subs and they are there but they are not there if you know what I mean??

You are quite right on this issue but the union is also under attack too but the way the cutting off procedure works is from a different age to the increased lapsing and ad hoc demands of management at this time and needs to be revised with this pay rounds deals and as said is no longer fit for purpose for this day and age!

[DGH]

Another part of the problem is that most managers don't have a clue how hard a given round may be on a given day. So they tend to fall back on their, often flawed, assessment of individual character and/or guessing how much they can get away with.

So a steady worker with 25 years in on his usual and fairly average length duty who usually completes goes to a manager and says 'I can't do my flex today and need to leave a loop' and the manager agrees to take it off without too much discussion beyond perhaps offering to pay O/T.

Conversely an equally steady worker with less than 2 years in who's covering a massive job he's done once before (three weeks ago) goes and says 'I don't really know the round and the person I'm with doesn't either, can we lose our flex please?' and meets with a hail of argument concerning 'performance issues', 'never usually a problem on these walks', 'we'll need to count the mail' etc etc. They will not be offered O/T to complete unless as a last resort.

This divides the workforce with those in the former category saying 'just tell them and work to your time' (because it generally works for them) and those in the latter for whom it quite simply does not work.

[robbertwhitton]

God I wish I had left the pin in this one!!! But creates a whole debate and some good points ?

[robbertwhitton]

and this for me, is the problem with the lapsing procedure, it just gives managers a green light to bully and cajole posties into working over their time and that's not what the lapsing procedure was designed to do!!!

Well put my friend tell it how it is thankyou