LGBTQ+ and Royal Mail

bogues2009 · Post by **bogues2009** » 08 Aug 2017, 05:46

Recently few posties had a discussion with manager if we as RM employees can have different views regarding LGBT to those shared by employer. It really started with messages on payslip and posters at workplace. We just worry that LGBT agenda will be pushed on employees and any comments or discussions questioning LGBT logic would be classified as hate leading to gross misconduct and being sacked and labelled a 'terrorist' under current government proposal.

LouBarlow · Post by **LouBarlow** » 08 Aug 2017, 06:45

If you want to be backwards enough to not support LGBTQ rights, then that is your prerogative, but if you spread any hatred at work, to anyone, I'd expect you to be called up on it.

Post by **greengiant** » 08 Aug 2017, 06:58

I would hope that any employee spreading hate with regards to sexual orientation, religion, etc would be disciplined!

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 08 Aug 2017, 08:21

bogues2009 wrote:We just worry that LGBT agenda will be pushed on employees

which is ?

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 08 Aug 2017, 09:14

LouBarlow wrote:If you want to be backwards enough to not support LGBTQ rights, then that is your prerogative, but if you spread any hatred at work, to anyone, I'd expect you to be called up on it.

Ah, the old "illiberal liberal" complex on show again. If you're not demonstrably for it then you must be against it.
Momentum would be proud of that attitude.

Maybe some don't see it as a big thing needing to be pushed and promoted at every turn, as the national Trust recently found out.
People should be allowed to live their lives without bias and hatred, but the converse is that others' views shouldn't necessarily be foisted on people whether they want it or not and without question.
Fascism by any other name.

ernieshoe · Post by **ernieshoe** » 08 Aug 2017, 09:18

Tman wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:If you want to be backwards enough to not support LGBTQ rights, then that is your prerogative, but if you spread any hatred at work, to anyone, I'd expect you to be called up on it.
Ah, the old "illiberal liberal" complex on show again. If you're not demonstrably for it then you must be against it.
Momentum would be proud of that attitude.

Maybe some don't see it as a big thing needing to be pushed and promoted at every turn, as the national Trust recently found out.
People should be allowed to live their lives without bias and hatred, but the converse is that others' views shouldn't necessarily be foisted on people whether they want it or not and without question.
Fascism by any other name.

Fascism - Momentum
The 2 go hand in hand.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 08 Aug 2017, 11:25

Tman wrote: People should be allowed to live their lives without bias and hatred.

uhhh so thats all theyre asking, its the case that theyre not given that right now which is the what is being highlighted.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Aug 2017, 12:01

bogues2009 wrote:Recently few posties had a discussion with manager if we as RM employees can have different views regarding LGBT to those shared by employer. It really started with messages on payslip and posters at workplace. We just worry that LGBT agenda will be pushed on employees and any comments or discussions questioning LGBT logic would be classified as hate leading to gross misconduct and being sacked and labelled a 'terrorist' under current government proposal.

If you discuss and debate any subject with respect and a willingness to listen to other opinions, and without invective or slurs then you'll be fine. You have a right to free speech within certain limitations.

Although how you can define LGBT logic as different enough to have its own definition escapes me.

Also, how can an agenda be pushed on you, are they forcing you to read the posters and payslip message, or are they there merely to inform the LGBT community and others who may be interested in such matters. Are you also going to raise the same concerns for adverts for Angard, or charities as they have no impact on you, or perhaps over the B&H posters and messages because you have never been bullied.

My take on it is if it's there to inform or help someone. what harm is it doing?

mickeymacca · Post by **mickeymacca** » 08 Aug 2017, 13:54

Tman wrote:
LouBarlow wrote:If you want to be backwards enough to not support LGBTQ rights, then that is your prerogative, but if you spread any hatred at work, to anyone, I'd expect you to be called up on it.
Ah, the old "illiberal liberal" complex on show again. If you're not demonstrably for it then you must be against it.
Momentum would be proud of that attitude.

Maybe some don't see it as a big thing needing to be pushed and promoted at every turn, as the national Trust recently found out.
People should be allowed to live their lives without bias and hatred, but the converse is that others' views shouldn't necessarily be foisted on people whether they want it or not and without question.
Fascism by any other name.

That's a bit harsh Tman, the OP has obviously registered an interest in the issue for it to be posted on here, so by suggestion an indifferent attitude does n't exist.

Bogues, It's obviously a significant anniversary and so there is more publicity given to events etc. at the moment, but for you to be 'worried' is terrible. I'm sending a virtual hug to comfort you now.

Probably the most unusual thread I've encountered on this site. I suppose there isn't much going on at the moment though.........

Post by **wacko74** » 08 Aug 2017, 14:25

Genuine question, can someone please tell me what ''issues'' the LGBTQ community face?

Which laws discriminate against them?

What employment rights do they not have?

What civil rights do not apply to them?

Post by **greengiant** » 08 Aug 2017, 14:57

Also, what is "LGBTQ+ logic"?

Is it different from heterosexual logic?

Post by **ArthurPewty** » 08 Aug 2017, 15:14

It's a complicated subject.
Most people would agree that saying 'gay men should be shot' is unacceptable ( though a very small minority might not)
However when you get down to 'same sex adoption is wrong', 'gender neutral toilets are daft' you will find a much more equal spread between people who agree, and people who are offended by those opinions.
I think the original poster is asking if holding, and expressing, such opinions as the 2nd examples is going to be considered a disciplinary offence. The answer to which is I hope not, but I don't know

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Aug 2017, 15:45

wacko74 wrote:Genuine question, can someone please tell me what ''issues'' the LGBTQ community face?

Which laws discriminate against them?

What employment rights do they not have?

What civil rights do not apply to them?

The Law isn't the problem, it's usually the application of those laws, or to be more correct the non-application of them. Managers have a responsibility to ensure that everyone is treated equally.

As far as I know, or at least the posters I have seen, they are aimed at the LGBT and other communities that MAY need specialised assistance and where and how they can get it. I personally can't see why people would take umbrage with that.

Perhaps occasionally there may be a poster about a Pride March or a Pink Outing, but again I see no difference to those posters about Cricket Matches, Football Tours, Christmas Dos and Works outings.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 08 Aug 2017, 15:50

ArthurPewty wrote:It's a complicated subject.
Most people would agree that saying 'gay men should be shot' is unacceptable ( though a very small minority might not)
However when you get down to 'same sex adoption is wrong', 'gender neutral toilets are daft' you will find a much more equal spread between people who agree, and people who are offended by those opinions.
I think the original poster is asking if holding, and expressing, such opinions as the 2nd examples is going to be considered a disciplinary offence. The answer to which is I hope not, but I don't know

Nothing wrong with expressing an opinion at all as long as it's done respectfully.

However, have the same conversation interspersed with hate terms would certainly run the risk.

Saying " I would be uncomfortable using a gender neutral toilet" is fine. Saying "I wouldn't take a piss in case one of those weirdos was watching me" would and should run the risk of a disciplinary.

Post by **baldrick** » 08 Aug 2017, 16:53

wacko74 wrote:Genuine question, can someone please tell me what ''issues'' the LGBTQ community face?

Laws have been changing over the last few years to prevent overt discrimination. The last example being a couple of weeks ago when a court ruled that the legally married partner of a gay man was entitled to the same rights to his pension as a wife would have. Previously pension providers were only giving payments based on contributions from when same sex marriage was made legal by Parliament (under David Cameron).
But gays can still face covert discrimination. It's difficult to prove that people have not been given a job or promotion because of their sexual orientation. The employer can claim they did not get the job because of suitability or ability.

Gays are often subject to bullying and harassment in the workplace, sometimes by managers and often from their work colleagues.
And gay people still face abuse and physical attacks in public places because of their perceived sexuality. There are stories in the media every week about these, and they are just the tip of the iceberg, most go unreported. Here is one from 4 days ago:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/ba ... 03751.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;