Revision Question - F/T and P/T deliveries and reserves rotating days off?

Superdude201 · Post by **Superdude201** » 03 Aug 2017, 17:39

I know it's been asked before so apologies for that, but couldn't find the relevant answers when searching the forums.

We're having a revision on deliveries and even though all duties are now apparently the same delivery span and length they've made around 70% (duties and cover duties) full time, with the remaining full time positions being full time reserves. Then the rest of the fittings are either 9 o clock starters or 8 o clock starters (with a couple part time reserves). So some full time fittings are paired with other full time fittings, and the rest of the full time fittings are paired with part time ones (the part time fittings are classed as the same length as full time fittings delivery wise).

This means people who have been here 5 years plus will end up being a reserve, while someone with 4 months service will have a duty. Is this the way it should be done? Is there any reason why the fittings can't be picked purely on a seniority basis when all walks are supposed to take the same amount of time? As the amount of full timers in wouldn't change whether they are a reserve or not?

As surely if the indoor aspect caters towards all walks being thrown in equally it doesn't matter what anyone is on, as someone starting at 9 should be in the same position at 9 o clock as someone who started at the full time start time.

If it does have to be done this way then what is the position with reserves and days off, because again it is probable that people who have been here for years will probably end up having a random day off week to week and people who have just started know their days off every week.

I'm not saying that people who've just started shouldn't get a rotating day off as in my opinion everyone should be treated the same, but at the same time we could end up with people who have worked 4 years plus without getting a rotating day off during that time, leaving the repick without a rotating day off again, and then some people getting a rotating day off after working here less than 6 months.

We are on longs and shorts as well so if the full timers don't have a rotating day off the average hours worked over the 6 week rotation will not amount to 39 hours.

Is there any agreements which cover these issues? Many thanks!

I_Take_My_Breaks · Post by **I_Take_My_Breaks** » 03 Aug 2017, 18:08

Superdude201 wrote:We are on longs and shorts as well so if the full timers don't have a rotating day off the average hours worked over the 6 week rotation will not amount to 39 hours.

If you end going back to a reserve and suffer the fate of not knowing what your day off is going to be. Then you work 7.48 every day for 5 days regardless of what the duty length they give you for the day. This will equal 39 hours every week.

Management might (and 100% try) to get you to work the full shift length, but as you DO NOT have a roster to balance your hours over the 4/6 weeks, then they need to be balanced over the week and 7.48 every day is easy to do. If you try and follow what they give you, you will end up going over the 39 hours for the week as you will be pretty much be given Tuesday (short day) off. Don't bother trying to balance over the 4/6 weeks because people will end up working for free as they will not keep tabs on their hours and management loves people working for free.

Stick to 7.48 every day. It's simple, it's fair and if you want, you can cut off on long days for being shafted by newbies getting a job after 4 months.

Alexei · Post by **Alexei** » 03 Aug 2017, 18:24

Forgive my ignorance , I'm not following...
The five year person will be a F/T reserve, the four month person will get a P/T duty?

Superdude201 · Post by **Superdude201** » 03 Aug 2017, 18:28

Yes, but fitting wise all the duties are the same. It's the indoor element that has been assigned differently to each duty to make them part time and full time.

woofwoof · Post by **woofwoof** » 03 Aug 2017, 18:31

I_Take_My_Breaks wrote:
Superdude201 wrote:We are on longs and shorts as well so if the full timers don't have a rotating day off the average hours worked over the 6 week rotation will not amount to 39 hours.
If you end going back to a reserve and suffer the fate of not knowing what your day off is going to be. Then you work 7.48 every day for 5 days regardless of what the duty length they give you for the day. This will equal 39 hours every week.

Management might (and 100% try) to get you to work the full shift length, but as you DO NOT have a roster to balance your hours over the 4/6 weeks, then they need to be balanced over the week and 7.48 every day is easy to do. If you try and follow what they give you, you will end up going over the 39 hours for the week as you will be pretty much be given Tuesday (short day) off. Don't bother trying to balance over the 4/6 weeks because people will end up working for free as they will not keep tabs on their hours and management loves people working for free.

Stick to 7.48 every day. It's simple, it's fair and if you want, you can cut off on long days for being shafted by newbies getting a job after 4 months.

He works longs and shorts not 7.48 every day

centenaryman · Post by **centenaryman** » 03 Aug 2017, 20:25

superdude......our revision was 4+ years ago.......75% duties full time approx. 35 duties............and the rest 25% ....13 were part time.

I 10 years in at the time full time......I was 2 short of the pick so spare.....luckily for me 2 in front of me did not pick....they gained long term sick cover so decent duties...I got the last rest day cover duty.....it was bloody hard for a few months learning 10 walks...(2 a day 5 days a week) and learning to throw mine and my partner who was an 830am part timer walk in it was mind numbing.

its took me 4 years finally ive got a walk and its with a fellow full timer so making it so much easier in a morning

there is still 2 lads full timers who don't have duties and are still spare 4 years on...both about a year less service than me.

I_Take_My_Breaks · Post by **I_Take_My_Breaks** » 03 Aug 2017, 20:52

woofwoof wrote:
I_Take_My_Breaks wrote:
Superdude201 wrote:We are on longs and shorts as well so if the full timers don't have a rotating day off the average hours worked over the 6 week rotation will not amount to 39 hours.
If you end going back to a reserve and suffer the fate of not knowing what your day off is going to be. Then you work 7.48 every day for 5 days regardless of what the duty length they give you for the day. This will equal 39 hours every week.

Management might (and 100% try) to get you to work the full shift length, but as you DO NOT have a roster to balance your hours over the 4/6 weeks, then they need to be balanced over the week and 7.48 every day is easy to do. If you try and follow what they give you, you will end up going over the 39 hours for the week as you will be pretty much be given Tuesday (short day) off. Don't bother trying to balance over the 4/6 weeks because people will end up working for free as they will not keep tabs on their hours and management loves people working for free.

Stick to 7.48 every day. It's simple, it's fair and if you want, you can cut off on long days for being shafted by newbies getting a job after 4 months.
He works longs and shorts not 7.48 every day

When you have a duty and set day off, working long and shorts balances out to 39 hours per week over the balance of the roster, this being either 4 or 6 weeks.

When you are a reserve you do not follow a roster with a set day off, you get what management want you to cover. Hence, if you was to work the duties given to you, you would more than likely work more than 39 hours per week as management more than not will roster you off on a short day ie Tuesday. So as a reserve with no set roster you should work 39 hours per week, not 39 hours per week over x number of weeks. One easy way of achieving this is just work 7.48 per day regardless of what day it is. If you don't and follow the hours given to you, then there is a good chance that by Saturday you will have worked over 39 hours. If you good at maths, then either cut off or book it as overtime, otherwise keep it simple and work 7.48 per day.

twoloops · Post by **twoloops** » 03 Aug 2017, 21:14

I think you've got to forget all about this I've been here longer seniority malarkey, that's gone thing of the past, it's also against the law.

Chelseablue · Post by **Chelseablue** » 03 Aug 2017, 22:53

Against the law lol Its the only way weve ever done it, and prob the fairest way as it is. Youv guys in our place 10 yrs plus service now floaters while ptimers just in door having there own duties in the resign . Its caused huge animosity and a lot of anger , but its the way forward! Has other offices done it this way ? Pt/ft pairings?

Superdude201 · Post by **Superdude201** » 03 Aug 2017, 23:47

mattycash wrote:I think you've got to forget all about this I've been here longer seniority malarkey, that's gone thing of the past, it's also against the law.

That's fine, but then surely everyone should be getting a rotating day off then and all treated the same then which I already said in my opinion should be happening.

We've had to put up with being messed around for the past 5 years as part time reserves, and part way through being able to come in on overtime on full time hours (still as reserves), with the idea that after you've been here a while once people have left you'd eventually get a full time contract, get a rotating day off and one in 6 Saturdays off (like everyone before us has been able to do), and when it appeared we were going to be senior enough for that to happen, the goalposts have been moved to the benefit of people who have been here less than a year.

I couldn't care less about doing a set duty every day, I have no problem being a reserve, it's not knowing your day off until the Saturday before that's the issue. When people who've been here less time than you have, are getting a rotating day off and you're not then how could that ever be classed as a fair system, hence the inquiry.

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 04 Aug 2017, 17:46

I'd rather be a full time reserve than a part time duty holder any day. It's a no brainer

Post by **POSTMAN** » 04 Aug 2017, 22:42

Dude, seeing as you're going through a revision, get the reserves day off rota thing sorted before sign off.
Get it in writing some sort of system! It's a good time to get this sorted, demand it!

Get a seniority list of the reserves.
Go down the list so they reserves get the pick of what duties are available for the next week.
They should then in the interest of fairness...
Have the day off of the duty they are covering,if it's 'Bobs' duty and it's a Sat off then they have that.If 'Bob' was on it he would have that day off wouldn't he!
Get some kind of aggregate list,that way you can keep an eye on who's had Sat's off,if some,even if they are low on seniority in the list have not had a Sat off for a while then they get priority.

world class male · Post by **world class male** » 05 Aug 2017, 06:11

POSTMAN wrote:Dude, seeing as you're going through a revision, get the reserves day off rota thing sorted before sign off.
Get it in writing some sort of system! It's a good time to get this sorted, demand it!

Get a seniority list of the reserves.
Go down the list so they reserves get the pick of what duties are available for the next week.
They should then in the interest of fairness...
Have the day off of the duty they are covering,if it's 'Bobs' duty and it's a Sat off then they have that.If 'Bob' was on it he would have that day off wouldn't he!
Get some kind of aggregate list,that way you can keep an eye on who's had Sat's off,if some,even if they are low on seniority in the list have not had a Sat off for a while then they get priority.

it still doesn't solve the issues on how many hours they work over the 6 week average, if all reserves came in on the 6th friday and said i've got until 11am and i've done my hours so i'll see you monday it'll put the wind up them