ARGUMENT WITH NEIGHBOUR OUTSIDE OF WORK

Redcollar · Post by **Redcollar** » 30 Jul 2017, 07:55

So,

I got into a heated argument with my neighbour 2 doors down from me on Friday about her dog barking all the time. When I say heated I mean REALLY heated.

The argument just so Happened as I was leaving my house for work and right in the middle of the cul-de-sac. Names and insults and swearing were getting shouted out but then my neighbour said she was going to go and report me to my manager for whatever reason.

She actually did go down and report me at the D.O. She has went and alleged that the POSTMAN was shouting at her for no reason. She has made no mention of me being her neighbour or about me being off duty. Basically has made out as though I was verbally abusing her while on delivery.

I now have a meeting about this tomorrow. Looking for any advice. Obviously I will be explaining that it was a personal problem with a neighbour outside of work but i feel that maybe because i was in uniform i may get in some bother. any help would be appreciated!

fluxburner · Post by **fluxburner** » 30 Jul 2017, 08:34

This was before you're start time, so it's nothing to do with royal mail even though you were in uniform.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 30 Jul 2017, 08:45

fluxburner wrote:This was before you're start time, so it's nothing to do with royal mail even though you were in uniform.

Actually, it can do. Even if you are not at work when you are wearing the uniform you are representing Royal Mail.

Is that fair? No. But it makes it easier for vindictive people to use it to attack you.

To the OP, get in touch with a rep as soon as you can and explain the situation. Be honest with them and follow their advice.

What can happen, well absolutely nothing all the way up to dismissal which is why you need the rep. The circumstances, context and mitigating factors will all have an impact so its hard to say what WILL happen. In most cases, it will be a slap on the wrist and told not to be so stupid again.

Post by **rogersh** » 30 Jul 2017, 08:54

Example of a similar scenario. On return from work, still in uniform, you had an argument with a family member in the vicinity of your own home. He/She (EDIT; The family member) reported you to employer ?? .

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 30 Jul 2017, 09:21

To the OP, it really comes down to your word against hers as there's no independent witness.

I would mention that it's part of neighbour dispute and this is a vindictive vexatious complaint and the Manager is being used.

Time to invlove the council noise abatement department and dog wardens regarding this, if she wants to play this game so can you !.

number one · Post by **number one** » 30 Jul 2017, 09:36

Ask what time she said this happened. Refuse to go in and say its a neighbour dispute, not work related.

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 30 Jul 2017, 10:04

If you weren't at work what the hell has it got to do with them. If you were a police officer or some such and abusing your power,then that's a different matter. You're a postman for goodness sake ,you don't have any power,you're not on duty 24/7. Anyway ,the only thing I can see them accusing you of,is bringing the business into disrepute,which is difficult to prove.

Post by **Lounge Lizard** » 30 Jul 2017, 10:09

rubberbond wrote:If you weren't at work what the hell has it got to do with them. If you were a police officer or some such and abusing your power,then that's a different matter. You're a postman for goodness sake ,you don't have any power,you're not on duty 24/7. Anyway ,the only thing I can see them accusing you of,is bringing the business into disrepute,which is difficult to prove.

Not "difficult to prove" if in Royal Mail uniform.
Or are you saying this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diCeubq_WXg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is acceptable if it occurred after his finish time ?

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 30 Jul 2017, 13:10

Lounge Lizard wrote:
rubberbond wrote:If you weren't at work what the hell has it got to do with them. If you were a police officer or some such and abusing your power,then that's a different matter. You're a postman for goodness sake ,you don't have any power,you're not on duty 24/7. Anyway ,the only thing I can see them accusing you of,is bringing the business into disrepute,which is difficult to prove.
Not "difficult to prove" if in Royal Mail uniform.
Or are you saying this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diCeubq_WXg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is acceptable if it occurred after his finish time ?

its difficult to prove,because you cannot quantify how the reputation of the company has suffered ,as a result of this particular action. It's not like he's gone out to have an argument whilst on delivery or collections,where's the damage? Theft for example ,causes reputational damage, a heated disagreement with your neighbour,does not if he'd have hit her whilst delivering that's a criminal matter and then maybe conduct. . Why she has gone to the office , only she knows,he wasn't representing the company in an official capacity, if I'd been his manager I would have said this to her, sort it out between you it's nothing to do with RM. How far do you go ,dropping rubber bands? Not knocking on doors,just posting a 739 card,etc. Where do you stop?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 30 Jul 2017, 13:58

It may be difficult to prove in a Court of Law, but a disciplinary isn't a court of law and doesn't have the same level of required proof.

I know you are only trying to help the OP, but giving him false hope won't.

If he tells the truth and stays calm and explains his view of the situation everything should be fine, but relying on her having to prove her assertions is the wrong approach to take.

The level of proof needed in a disciplinary case is just that the decision made is reasonable given the information available. Is that fair, probably not, but conversely we can't expect a full blown police style investigation for every vexatious complaint. The manager should take his account into consideration and reach a reasonable decision, hence why telling the truth and remaining calm is the best approach.

Get the Union involved though.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 30 Jul 2017, 14:26

swear and shout at my wife when am in uniform all time

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 30 Jul 2017, 16:48

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:It may be difficult to prove in a Court of Law, but a disciplinary isn't a court of law and doesn't have the same level of required proof.

I know you are only trying to help the OP, but giving him false hope won't.

If he tells the truth and stays calm and explains his view of the situation everything should be fine, but relying on her having to prove her assertions is the wrong approach to take.

The level of proof needed in a disciplinary case is just that the decision made is reasonable given the information available. Is that fair, probably not, but conversely we can't expect a full blown police style investigation for every vexatious complaint. The manager should take his account into consideration and reach a reasonable decision, hence why telling the truth and remaining calm is the best approach.

Get the Union involved though.

I am not trying to give him false hope. It's what I was taught by Royal Mail themselves. Their game ,their rules,that's what I quote. I've done the RM conduct course.

Post by **rogersh** » 30 Jul 2017, 16:54

Redcollar wrote:So,

I got into a heated argument with my neighbour 2 doors down from me on Friday about her dog barking all the time. When I say heated I mean REALLY heated.

The argument just so Happened as I was leaving my house for work and right in the middle of the cul-de-sac. Names and insults and swearing were getting shouted out but then my neighbour said she was going to go and report me to my manager for whatever reason.

She actually did go down and report me at the D.O. She has went and alleged that the POSTMAN was shouting at her for no reason. She has made no mention of me being her neighbour or about me being off duty. Basically has made out as though I was verbally abusing her while on delivery.

I now have a meeting about this tomorrow. Looking for any advice. Obviously I will be explaining that it was a personal problem with a neighbour outside of work but i feel that maybe because i was in uniform i may get in some bother. any help would be appreciated!

Redcollar - What if during the argument she set her dog on you or assaulted you & reported the incident. I wonder if Royal Mail would represent you if you wanted to make a complaint against your neighbour or would R.M. say as the incident occurred outside your contracted hours so it's a private matter.

Post by **Judgee** » 30 Jul 2017, 17:30

It is a private matter but as you were wearing your uniform they could say you were bring RM into disrepute. Be honest with them at work, most likely they won't get involved as long as you explain it was a private matter with a neighbour whilst off duty. They might just suggest that next time your neighbour starts, go and get changed before you start fing and blindin!

Kings Norton · Post by **Kings Norton** » 30 Jul 2017, 18:34

I Had a similar problem years ago they got me in the office as well I told the D.O.M the police was dealing with it and it she was not a full shilling they noted it down and left it at that.