Part Time - Full Time

GRS · Post by **GRS** » 20 Jul 2017, 18:14

One trend that keeps coming up on various threads over time is the struggle people say they have getting made up from part time to full time hours. Something must be amiss here because it gets brought up by so many different people. When people have their interview (obviously for a part time job) are they being told that they will be made up to full time (basically lied to) in order to get them to take the job when we know that the chances of it happening are nil. The only other scenario is that people are naively assuming that they should be made up which is a strange thing to do as surely if you apply for part time hours employment you know what you are taking on. Be interested to hear views on this from people trying to get more hours and what they were expecting.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 20 Jul 2017, 18:43

What happens is basically this:

You start with RM on a (typically 20hr) contract to work 5 days a week. You won't be offered more hours contractually but there will be some kind of mention of 'overtime being available'/

This is disingenuous on RM's part because in almost all cases they will in fact want you to work 39 hour week over 5 days all the time. But when you are on holiday, they'll only pay you the 20 hrs and you'll only get the pro-rata holiday allowance - even if you've worked consistently 39 hours a week for several years.

This is clearly morally wrong, and indeed there is a precedent that says if you've worked a regular number of hours for 6 months or more you are entitled to be offered those hours contractually.

RM will never do this and the union seem reluctant to inform new starters that this is an option, or to push for it as and when they become aware.

It's a disgrace.

(NB, I am very happy on my P/T contract but dozens of people in my office don't want to be on 20 hrs, they want full time work, are working full time and yet are being cheated out of their full holiday entitlement and pay).

Why does the union not tackle this as a matter of urgency? Indeed why has it not done so for the past decade?

GRS · Post by **GRS** » 20 Jul 2017, 19:27

Ok - cheers for that. I had sussed the bit about holiday, sick pay etc but can see now that people are regularly (every week in many cases it seems) working 39 hours. So the need is there for full time employment and as you say RM are being very crafty pulling the stroke they are. They are playing on people's vulnerability and desperation to have full time work and if people are working those hours then they should be properly compensated when on leave etc. There's nothing wrong in having a mixture of p/t and f/t work but this culture seems to have become the norm as does zero hours contract in other workplaces. It's wrong and as you say needs serious challenging by the union and at the very least a decent,honest and open answer as to why it goes on.

Post by **rogersh** » 20 Jul 2017, 20:19

Totally agree with your post DGH.

In 2013 about 50 staff were taken on at our RDC. I was told at interview all the full time jobs had been allocated !!.So I could only be offered a 20 hour contract (10.00 to 14.00) on the understanding I worked overtime from 14.00 to 18.00. I did that for about 15 months until a lull in June 2014 meant no o/t was available. Although later o/t became available I decided to do only my contracted hours as I saw no inclination by management or CWU to implement the agreement & increase my hours to full time. (Not saying everyone is in a position to do that)

In February 2015, After 2 years service, permanent contracts were offered. Management, again in agreement with the CWU area rep gave an ultimatum to to the staff on the 39 hr contracts to cut to 30 hrs in "exchange" for a permanent contract or stay as they were on a rolling contract !!.

Suffice to say all (I believe) opted for the permanent contract & most proceeded to make the "lost" hours up with overtime.

Like you say disgraceful. And they wonder why 43% ( -3%) say we trust each other in the latest survey.

cpsteve · Post by **cpsteve** » 20 Jul 2017, 21:09

Well at our office p/t workers are made up as soon as a f/t worker leaves as we have our quota of p/t staff, it has been under a year for some. The problem for p/t staff is full time staff who cut the job up giving more scope to keep p/t workers hours low. None of our p/t staff take breaks because they feel under pressure the union reps and managers do not care.

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 21 Jul 2017, 05:25

Surely the real problem for p/t staff is this spurious 'quota' for full-timers, which is clearly just a ploy by RM. The actual need for f/t staff is far higher, which is clear from the fact that over 90% of p/t staff are required to work 39 hours every week. That the union connives at this is almost beyond belief.

It is scandalous that people are recruited on p/t contracts when the company knows full well they will be doing f/t hours on a regular basis.

Angwyn · Post by **Angwyn** » 21 Jul 2017, 06:37

GRS wrote:When people have their interview (obviously for a part time job) are they being told that they will be made up to full time (basically lied to) in order to get them to take the job when we know that the chances of it happening are nil. The only other scenario is that people are naively assuming that they should be made up which is a strange thing to do as surely if you apply for part time hours employment you know what you are taking on.

At my interview I was told categorically that RM will not pay regular overtime, with the exception of a few weeks grace to get in to the routine and get up to speed. It was made quite clear that I should not rely on overtime to boost my wages.
That is absolutely fine by me, I only want part time and am pleased with my hours.
However . . . . I haven't started yet and I will be at a different DO to the one I interviewed at so we will wait and see what the reality is!

ernieshoe · Post by **ernieshoe** » 21 Jul 2017, 07:46

DGH wrote:What happens is basically this:

You start with RM on a (typically 20hr) contract to work 5 days a week. You won't be offered more hours contractually but there will be some kind of mention of 'overtime being available'/

This is disingenuous on RM's part because in almost all cases they will in fact want you to work 39 hour week over 5 days all the time. But when you are on holiday, they'll only pay you the 20 hrs and you'll only get the pro-rata holiday allowance - even if you've worked consistently 39 hours a week for several years.

This is clearly morally wrong, and indeed there is a precedent that says if you've worked a regular number of hours for 6 months or more you are entitled to be offered those hours contractually.

RM will never do this and the union seem reluctant to inform new starters that this is an option, or to push for it as and when they become aware.

It's a disgrace.

(NB, I am very happy on my P/T contract but dozens of people in my office don't want to be on 20 hrs, they want full time work, are working full time and yet are being cheated out of their full holiday entitlement and pay).

Why does the union not tackle this as a matter of urgency? Indeed why has it not done so for the past decade?

it's just a bit of a variant on a Zero hours contract really.

You miss out on holiday, pension, full sick pay.
Full time hours on a 20 hour contract. Wrong.
I'm afraid, in my opinion, the Union is only interested in its full time, long serving members.
The CWU should be up in arms about this !

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 21 Jul 2017, 11:59

If you were told at interview you would get full time hours and you haven't,you should take out a grievance,because I am aware of people who did this and won , getting full time hours as a result.

Newbie001 · Post by **Newbie001** » 21 Jul 2017, 12:33

In recent times there's not been a lot of decent full-time jobs, especially up North. Royal Mail part-time still pays round about same, maybe little less, than a minimum wage full-time job. For most it is a case of needs must.
It's when you're ok maybe not forced, but expected to work above you're hours week in week out. With zero hope of ever getting a better contract if you want one. That's what grinds at people.
Not all but most reps don't even try to get people made up because it's such a messy process.
And very often because of seniority it's not the ones who are working all the hours that gets made up anyway, so even managers wouldn't fight their cause.
The whole process really needs to be looked at.

stoneybroke · Post by **stoneybroke** » 21 Jul 2017, 15:51

I've been at RM now for over 10 years on a 25 hour p/t contract. I mostly work either 36 or 39 hours, depending on which walk I'm doing ( apart from when this lapsing kicks in and they ask me to come in late as a bag carrier).

Now when they come begging me to do overtime because they're short staffed, if I fancy it I do it, if not I just refuse and hope it leaves them in the s**t.

CWU not interested. As someone already said, they only care about preserving full-time jobs and don't give a s**t about part-timers.

All this time that lapsing is taking place, instead of the full-timers coming in on time and doing the job properly they come in early, rush around like twats, cutting corners, and at the same time condemning me and other part-timers to be put back onto our contracted hours.

lbw0708 · Post by **lbw0708** » 21 Jul 2017, 16:04

Hi guys,

I've just been offered a job with RM on a 20 hour contract. I do need full time hours and I was assured at interview that there is plenty of overtime available and I'm more likely to be working a 40 hour week if I wish to. I've been reading through this thread...what's the deal on pensions/sick pay/holiday entitlement and pay in a p/t position?

DGH · Post by **DGH** » 21 Jul 2017, 16:25

You will pay tax, pension and NI according to how much you earn.

You will receive holiday entitlement according to your contracted hours, not the hours you work, and when you are on holiday you will receive your contracted hours as pay. Sick pay will be as per contracted hours.

Which is why RM are taking the piss offering 20 hour contracts while fully expecting 39 hours to be worked.

lbw0708 · Post by **lbw0708** » 21 Jul 2017, 16:32

okay thanks :) is the rate of o/t pay more than normal rate? I.e. if I'm contracted for 20 hours would anything over and above that be paid at a higher rate?

rehabron · Post by **rehabron** » 21 Jul 2017, 17:11

lbw0708 wrote:okay thanks :) is the rate of o/t pay more than normal rate? I.e. if I'm contracted for 20 hours would anything over and above that be paid at a higher rate?

The answer to that is no. You will not receive the higher hourly rate until you have crossed the 39 hour FT barrier