Nicola fancies another Scottish referendum...

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:02

On the back of the Brexit vote.

How does she square that with the Scottish remainers that are Unionists, and I know a few, along with Nats that voted leave

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:16

They'll all get an equal vote.
That's kind of how you square any election/referendum.
What's your point?

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:23

Why is she entitled to another referendum due to the result of a UK wide vote?

Do I have to consider every Nat grievance every time I cast a vote?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:28

simply_the_best wrote:Why is she entitled to another referendum due to the result of a UK wide vote?

Do I have to consider every Nat grievance every time I cast a vote?

She isn't entitled to another referendum.
She believes ( rightly or wrongly ) that the Scottish people are entitled to another referendum because of the SNP manifesto.
Stop taking things so personally, if the Scottish people don't want to leave the UK, they won't....end of.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:35

fishtank wrote:
simply_the_best wrote:Why is she entitled to another referendum due to the result of a UK wide vote?

Do I have to consider every Nat grievance every time I cast a vote?
She isn't entitled to another referendum.
She believes ( rightly or wrongly ) that the Scottish people are entitled to another referendum because of the SNP manifesto.
Stop taking things so personally, if the Scottish people don't want to leave the UK, they won't....end of.

It wasn't in their manifesto, she's lying for a change.

In the laughable white paper from the last referendum there was one grain of truth in it, i can go find it if you want but it essentially said..

If we vote NO then we could potentially taken out of the EU in the event of a referendum on the matter.

Their White paper and we still voted NO.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:38

Wings over Scotland - a pretty extreme nationalist website/organisation - were recommending that nationalists vote for remain (in the EU). Not because they believed in being ruled by Brussels/Germany (in effect), but because they knew that Scotland voting for remain would be their best bet of securing the legitimation for yet another indy ref. They weren't, I'm sure, the only ones - but I don't have time nor inclination to be scouring extremist Scottish nationalist websites to confirm that TBH.

That being the case, I'd say that the remain vote in Scotland was skewed - and not a true representation of Scotlands opinion on membership of the EU.

Its all becoming a bit desperate if you ask me. It was only a couple of years back that we had a ref. And that was preceded by several years of debate. Now we are supposed to want another one ? On the grounds of Brexit ? Really ??

The games that the SNP are playing are becoming transparent and ridiculous to all. Do they really want a ref - or do they want May to say they can't have one first - and then have a ref off the back of her "political ignorance" ?

We had a once in a generation ref and it was a pretty solid vote to remain a part of the union.

End of.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:45

The criteria for a second referendum is contained in the SNP manifesto 2016.

clear and sustained evidence" that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people - or if there is a "significant and material" change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.

That's the exact words.
She's not lying simply, you are.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 17 Mar 2017, 18:55

fishtank wrote:The criteria for a second referendum is contained in the SNP manifesto 2016.

clear and sustained evidence" that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people - or if there is a "significant and material" change in circumstances, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against its will.
That's the exact words.
She's not lying simply, you are.

i'll give you that then.

Why have they raised more money in the last week for an Indyref2 campaign than they managed for the whole EU referendum?

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:01

That being the case, I'd say that the remain vote in Scotland was skewed - and not a true representation of Scotlands opinion on membership of the EU.

That's a dangerous path to go down.
Should I then question Indyref 1 on the grounds that the people of Scotland were asked to vote no on the basis that it was the only way to remain in Europe, perhaps the indyref was not a true reflection of the wish to be independent, perhaps it was skewed?

I don't know why you're all getting flustered and talking about extremists.

The bottom line is the minute the UK voted Brexit and it became obvious that Scotland had voted remain the die was cast, The people of Scotland will decide one way or the other. Well all get a vote on the day, cast yours as you wish.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:07

Tell you one thing - the nationalists don't like Corbyn.

He splits their vote you see.

Am I right here Fishtank

edit. we've had our say FT. Do you really want to hear the voice of the people again, thats the question ?
The SNP are trying to manipulate the will of the people. I'll grant you that this is par for the course in politics - but its also the reason that people like myself are looking for alternatives and generally do not give a shite for all the duplicitous verbiage and chess manuoevres from the likes of Sturgeon.

simply_the_best · Post by **simply_the_best** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:08

Ive already pointed out that the original white paper mentioned we could be out of the EU in the event of a No vote.

A Yes vote guaranteed it!!

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:18

jetblack wrote:Tell you one thing - the nationalists don't like Corbyn.

He splits their vote you see.

Am I right here Fishtank

Corbyn is even more of a non-entity in Scotland than he is in England, He doesn't even appear on most people's political radar up here, Westminster "leaders" showing up is usually a negative influence on a party's support north of the border, that's always been the case even with a "Scot' like Broon, that's why they seldom visit. Corbyn doesn't split anybody's vote up here apart from his own party.

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:20

well i don't want to see you's go. is Scotland economically viable to go it alone?...how much would the annual cost for Scotland be to be part of the EU.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:24

fishtank wrote:Corbyn doesn't split anybody's vote up here apart from his own party.

Scottish Labour need shut of Kezia. Scottish Labour need to have the same grass roots renaissance that the party has had south of the border. Kezia can continue her political "career" with the Lib Dems

.

Scotland is, first and foremost, a socialist nation - a nation that has been let down by the Labour Party just the same of the rest of the UK. Thus Jeremy Corbyn.

Better Together my friend.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Mar 2017, 19:26

daveyeff wrote:well i don't want to see you's go. is Scotland economically viable to go it alone?...how much would the annual cost for Scotland be to be part of the EU.

It's difficult to say, some countries are net contributors and some are net beneficiaries depending on their economic position but full membership of the EU is not the only option. The UK government doesn't want access to the single market because the trade off would be free movement of labour. They are obsessed with immigration, does Scotland share that obsession? I don't have all the answers, only time will tell.