Working beyond contract hours

[gaza]

Hi what is the rules regarding working beyond your contract hours as in our office the members are very weak and the ,
Managers seem to harass anybody who says they don't want to work over. our office union rep is in the management pocket and does not offer much help at all. i know people will say you do not have to work over but it would be nice for leaflets to be distributed around delivery offices to be displayed on notice boards etc and also pocket form with a possible phone number to contact if this constantly happens. ALso it's sometimes hard when your paired up with some a lot slower than you. I feel this problem which exists throughout Royal Mail really needs to be clamped down on and ALL MEMBERS need to know exactly where they stand instead of being intimidated and harassed by managers.

[WOBBLY]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 36&t=18563" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Annex one Royal Mail Delivery – Avoiding delay

Local work plan

Delay to mail is a serious matter and could potentially be unlawful. All
employees have a responsibility to ensure all items are processed in
accordance with the local workplan. All employees will be made aware of the
local workplan and the specific requirements of the particular job roles they will
perform. Any time mail is delayed, for whatever reason, Royal Mail employees
should attempt to correct the problem efficiently and effectively as soon as
possible.

General rules
• Employees must be made aware that mail must never be taken home at the
end of a delivery. Correct endorsement procedures and correct use of the
pouching off wallet, where appropriate, will avoid this
• Under normal circumstances, if procedures have been followed no conduct
action will be taken against individuals if it is not possible to deliver all mail
within their scheduled time
• The main aim will be to avoid the circumstances that may pose operational
difficulties to an employee and to find ways of overcoming any potential
problem at an early stage. It is also important that all employees are made
fully aware of the implications of delaying mail and the possible
consequences
• Measures must be put in place to advise employees on the course of action
to be taken when difficulties arise when managers are unavailable


Prior to commencement of delivery

On completion of their preparation, where an employee believes that they may
experience difficulty in completing their delivery within the authorised time
allotted, they should approach their manager as soon as possible before setting
out on delivery. It will be for the manager to discuss any problem and advise the
employee what particular action should be taken, including the consideration of
collection on delivery around associated post boxes to enable USO compliance.
When an employee has requested assistance on delivery, but the manager
believes that assistance is not required, the decision, along with the advice
given to the employee, should be recorded and associated with the daily traffic
volume record. The employee can have access to this record and may ask to
see it prior to commencement of their delivery.

The employee should be encouraged to see their union representative if
agreement cannot be reached. Instances where there is a difference of opinion
between the employee and the manager about what is possible during the shift
will be looked at individually within the unit on the basis of factual evidence.
Such differences will be addressed prior to the employee leaving the office for
delivery.

The employee and manager should agree a specified time to phone if full
completion of delivery workload within the allocated time proves not to be
possible. If it becomes obvious that the delivery may be a problem, the
employee can contact the manager before the arranged time.


After commencement of delivery

Where an employee is prevented from completing their delivery for any reason,
it is essential that this is reported immediately, either by returning to the office or
by phone. A written record will be kept.

All employees should be informed of the local authorised arrangements in
writing.

[worktotime]

a " WRITTEN RECORD WILL BE KEPT " , who by manager or opg ?

[WOBBLY]

a " WRITTEN RECORD WILL BE KEPT " , who by manager or opg ?

The manager will keep a written record.

[worktotime]

a " WRITTEN RECORD WILL BE KEPT " , who by manager or opg ?

The manager will keep a written record.

for what reason does he need to keep a record for ? if somebody wants to finish on time or work there contracted hours , do they also keep a record of the runners going home an hour or more before there contracted hours finish time. I'm guessing not.

[tommyrep]

Workttime is right. The long winded view topic by wobbly is written with so many loose ends for RM management to wriggle out off and continue to harass any OPG to comply with THEIR wishes to complete a duty, regardless of how long it takes.
It would test their management skills and reasonable workload judgement far beyond their capabilities.
Can anyone provide examples of any other job out with RM delivery, where that kind of pressure is focused on any employee ??- it's unfair.
Especially by plannners who do not have a clue about the actual job of delivering mail often in many varied circumstance. How can they tell reasonable expected timing of delivery to neighbours, driving conditions, road works, parking problems, slow elderly handicapped etc who take much longer to answer doors - I could go on. The simple answer is the cannot, they do not have a clue and it's ALL done by guesswork, so long as it's biased towards RM In the view topic wobbly quotes. The topic describes a long winded procedure that only adds more pressure delivery staff, and what for ??? The simple choice is any OPG is fully entitled to have the same rights as any other employee doing a contracted hour job, and that is FINISHING work, at the official finishing time. We all have a life out with RM. We have rights and the simple right to finish on time is NOT a crime, regardless of RM bullies. Our Union need to take heed and start protecting our colleagues in delivery, it's a case of they always claim to be in the right and use wilful delay threats out of context. They are clearly in the wrong and a good workplace employment lawyer would have them for breakfast.

[Jpro747]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

[Lincox]

This problem has been going on for years and is unsolvable because there are so many differentials in round size, daily mail/packet volumes, age of delivery staff, health and fitness of delivery staff, daily route problems etc etc.

With this type of employment, the only way around this is to get away from an hourly paid job and make this a salaried job. A very good salary for the work involved, but with an employment contract that means that you finish the work each day regardless of the hours required to do the job. This would be true swings and roundabouts as you would finish early sometimes and late others. Overtime and not getting paid for it would be a thing of the past, disputes with managers would be decreased to a minimum, and the business would have a much better system for budgeting and cost analysis.

[worktotime]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

if your office rep is sat in the dims pocket contact the area rep , also request for your duty to be tested , and if the clown continues stick in a H1 and go on sick with stress over the b&h , oh and contact the cwu bully and harassment line and inform them. good luck and don't let these bastards grind you down.

[steve1873]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

You file an official grievance, citing both the manager in question and also the rep. And IMMEDIATELY forward a motion of no confidence in the rep!

[trythat]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

As others have said, get in touch with Area rep, use the phone lines, but also keep a written diary. You should record what was said by whom, what you thought you could achieve. Also when you are in these situations do you go over duty time? If so are you paid overtime as well.

I know it seems a lot to have to do, JUST to do your job, but the tools are there and I'd like to think the CWU will look after you and sort your office out.

[steve1873]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

As others have said, get in touch with Area rep, use the phone lines, but also keep a written diary. You should record what was said by whom, what you thought you could achieve. Also when you are in these situations do you go over duty time? If so are you paid overtime as well.

I know it seems a lot to have to do, JUST to do your job, but the tools are there and I'd like to think the CWU will look after you and sort your office out.

This is good advice as to the keeping a diary record.

I would add that if a manager insists that the duty can be completed and you still disagree, then you need to inform him (with a witness present usually rep, but in this instance perhaps someone else) that you will agree to attempt completion, but INSIST that you are not working past your time and request what they want done with items that are unable to be delivered. He simply cannot ignore this question. If he attempts to ignore it, ask for the contact number for his boss as you require an answer to this very important question. This conversation needs a resolution. He is a manager. He is paid to manage.

[gaza]

could the union put out more workplace leaflets and also a small wallet card with a few facts about working in deliveries I used to have one.

[Jpro747]

What do you do when you have a manager that won't take no for an answer? We have a new lino who is a nightmare. I have on several occasions been given s##t for telling them I can't complete. He says it's achievable in the time because "we're under model", but even if we are, I still feel unable to complete and I'm by no means slow. His latest trick is to say you have to take it and deliver it all, and then goes into silent mode and ignores anything you say. What's worse the rep agrees with him, so then you have two people to argue with. It's even become a struggle to tell them you won't be able to lapse without feeling like you'll be sacked in the morning

As others have said, get in touch with Area rep, use the phone lines, but also keep a written diary. You should record what was said by whom, what you thought you could achieve. Also when you are in these situations do you go over duty time? If so are you paid overtime as well.

I know it seems a lot to have to do, JUST to do your job, but the tools are there and I'd like to think the CWU will look after you and sort your office out.

I have been getting paid the OT until a few weeks ago and it wasn't a problem with our previous lino, but the new one is clamping down on it and saying we shouldn't be going over due to light mail volumes. I work in a small rural office with around 20 staff and cutting off is unheard of, I don't think anyone is aware of the cutting off procedure except me and I wouldn't have known if I didn't visit this forum. Most just go over and sign their OT on the sheet when they finish.

[gaza]

All the more for the union to send out or visit the work place as a fair few Union reps (not all of them) do not do as they are supposed to do and represent there paid up members with the correct information. We need more easy to read leaflets and as I said a wallet size rules of delivery etc.