is it time to take a stand over the overtime/working for free issue?

sophie97 · Post by **sophie97** » 09 Dec 2016, 17:30

ive been a postwomen for several years now, ive worked in a few offices, ive been on here and ive browsed the facebook postie group.

Everywhere you go/look its the same problem....

our dutys are getting longer, it takes longer to complete due to increase in parcels and scanning plus lapsing. yet we are expected to do it in a quicker time, its baffling.

everytime i go over my hours (im on a 22 hour contract...) its like a battle to get the overtime, and then when the boss agrees after alot of pressuring and belittling, its often not actually been paid and the process starts all over again. i also often get paired up with someone on a bigger contract, yet we start the same time, and finish together, yet he/she will be getting paid more than me due to being on a bigger contract.

last week i was with a full timer, we started the same time, we finished the same time, i should be getting 29 hours for that week if paid correctly, yet he will get 39....

the whole office is full of people working for free, many dont even realise it. not a single person takes a break in our office. ive tried making a stand in the past and i just get treated like crap and any overtime (which i need being on 22 hours) is taken away out of spite.

we used to have a union rep who was more focused on keeping a low profile before retirement then actually being any use. Ive contacted the union and emailed moya and have had the same generic response, which is 'just work to your time' which his easier said then done, especially when you have pressure from managers and the threat of overtime being taken away, or even threatened with a conduct code or something for being 'slow' (i would say im in the top 20% for quickness in my office) my manager (5th one, they are all the same) hasnt actually been on a delivery for 15 years, so he doesnt understand its not the same as it was.

all im asking is I get paid for the hours I work, it sounds pretty simple. an electronic clock in machine would solve everything, yet RM would never go down that route as then they would have to pay staff correctly.

I think its time we took a stand nationally to get this sorted, I can accept part time contracts as its part of life even beyond RM, but i will not work for free and quite frankly, not getting paid correctly every week is theft in my eyes..

oh and one last thing, we keep getting told that mail/parcels are down, the last figure I heard was 14% on last year, true or not, just because figures may be down 14%, doesnt mean we will be 14% quicker, it takes the same time to deliver one letter to a house as two, not to mention scanning/p739's/deliver to neighbour malarkey

terry2972 · Post by **terry2972** » 09 Dec 2016, 18:15

I cannot get my head around why anybody would work for free I never have and never will

weary_posty · Post by **weary_posty** » 09 Dec 2016, 18:25

I've been banging on for years now that we need clocking in/out machines.

If everyone was made to start on time, took a break and use the tools provided everyone but the big wigs upstairs would be happy

yubin282 · Post by **yubin282** » 09 Dec 2016, 18:52

I take my break everyday and get called worse than s**t for it (by the office the rep)

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:01

Tools provided meaning use the trolleys

If the screws really wanted to enforce this then they would come out on delivery and conduct code those posties who are not using the 'tools' provided.

But they will never do this because it basically means that every duty in our section would need at least 2 loops taken off to allow for the time it takes to use them. And that to a privatised Royal Mail with managers going out doing our work, and cutbacks on walk-sorting staff.... will never happen.

What I really can't understand is why part-timers are starting at the same time as full-timers. Some of them are giving them nearly 2 hours for FREE not taking their BREAKS and still working PAST their finishing time.

It just makes a complete mockery of the hours that staff have actually worked in the office. So yes it is time to make a stand BUT can your selfish colleagues who just work whatever they want to work do the same?? What more do you expect your Union rep to do when you have staff following their own agenda? Clocking on/off machines are not the answer to this problem because they can still be manipulated by staff i.e. clocking on after working in the office for an hour, for example.

I don't pay much attention to the mail traffic forecast either. Its just an excuse for the managers to either lapse more duties or coerce staff into taking out all their deliveries when they have told them that they are unable to extend. Take the figures with a pinch of salt because there are numerous factors that cause you to overrun on delivery.

sophie97 · Post by **sophie97** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:01

terry2972 wrote:I cannot get my head around why anybody would work for free I never have and never will

Fulltimer?

korky · Post by **korky** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:13

puzzled ? you did 10hrs overtime off your own back for free?
only 1 person to blame i'm afraid

sophie97 · Post by **sophie97** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:32

korky wrote:puzzled ? you did 10hrs overtime off your own back for free?
only 1 person to blame i'm afraid

Where did i say that?
I said i did 29 hours and worked with a full timer who will be getting 39 hours dispite only working 29 hours too

korky · Post by **korky** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:49

sophie97 wrote:
korky wrote:puzzled ? you did 10hrs overtime off your own back for free?
only 1 person to blame i'm afraid
Where did i say that?

just that you said you started & finished same time as the FT?

paul1231 · Post by **paul1231** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:55

Id like to see a week of every one on 25hours and under only do them hours then go home especially this time of year. Would show them its usually the short contracted hours people who do most of the work....

Post by **bustedflush** » 09 Dec 2016, 19:57

sophie97 wrote:
korky wrote:puzzled ? you did 10hrs overtime off your own back for free?
only 1 person to blame i'm afraid
Where did i say that?
I said i did 29 hours and worked with a full timer who will be getting 39 hours dispite only working 29 hours too

Hang on - the FT person would be doing prep/IPS/frame before you started. Sounds like 29 hours is throw-off, bundle and deliver yes? Or just delivery? (being Christmas as 22 hours contract normally would just be bundle and walk).

It's quite usual for a FT to do his prep and delivery in 29 hours, as the other 10 hours are office-based, which you don't have on a 22-hrs contract.

Something doesn't add-up here as unless he/she did office work before you started they wouldn't be FT.

Anyway, aside from that you now have a permanent contract so USE IT to your advantage. Insist from now on you want dropping back on your time UNTIL all the outstanding OT has been entered on the system to your satisfaction. Once that's done, state you want a procedure agreed with the DIM to extend, including a sheet to sign and fill every time you are back late with the minutes/hours you are claiming. I can't see why this isn't in place and effective already. Say you are fed-up with the aggro of claiming, and as you are so cr*p or slow he/she will surely not want you there longer than necessary so surely won't want you doing any extra hours from now-on.

Trust me the DIMs are lazy mentally too, and any aggro they'll want to avoid, especially at Xmas. Obviously say it firmly and politely but do not work for nothing, or do extra when they are recalcitrant about paying outstanding docket.

wannabeek · Post by **wannabeek** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:21

Back when I started I was taken as a mug by mgmt. They often didn't pay my owed overtime and I had to go chase it up. It did always eventually get paid after badgering them, tho I didn't like doing it.

After a few months of this I politely said that I wouldn't work over my hours that week until the previous week's overtime was correctly paid. As if by magic, every week I am paid the correct overtime.

I think by doing that I may have got myself off the 'stiff them on overtime' list and onto the 'get their overtime right' list. (Even nowadays, when I rarely do much if any overtime)

Worth considering maybe.

Post by **woopesh** » 09 Dec 2016, 20:53

Just work your time. If you have a permanent contract, the manager can't do anything to you as long as you deliver a "reasonable" amount of mail. I've been told this by the union and HR. Once due to factors outside my control I ended up only having the time to deliver to one street before cutting off. The managers moaned but couldn't do anything, because given the circumstances 1 road was a "reasonable" amount of mail. I've been told by a postie who cuts off everyday there is a procedure they have to follow before taking action for "poor" performance. They can't just sack you on a whim because you cut off.

sophie97 · Post by **sophie97** » 09 Dec 2016, 21:06

woopesh wrote:Just work your time. If you have a permanent contract, the manager can't do anything to you as long as you deliver a "reasonable" amount of mail. I've been told this by the union and HR. Once due to factors outside my control I ended up only having the time to deliver to one street before cutting off. The managers moaned but couldn't do anything, because given the circumstances 1 road was a "reasonable" amount of mail. I've been told by a postie who cuts off everyday there is a procedure they have to follow before taking action for "poor" performance. They can't just sack you on a whim because you cut off.

I need the overtime. Im on 22 hours, if i work to my time i will only get 22 hours. The problem is i probably work 35 hours a week and only get paid 28-30 hours. The other 5 or so i have to try and go through alot of hoops to get, and then by the time its sorted i then have several other weeks of overtime to sort. Its stressful

sophie97 · Post by **sophie97** » 09 Dec 2016, 21:10

bustedflush wrote:
sophie97 wrote:
korky wrote:puzzled ? you did 10hrs overtime off your own back for free?
only 1 person to blame i'm afraid
Where did i say that?
I said i did 29 hours and worked with a full timer who will be getting 39 hours dispite only working 29 hours too
Hang on - the FT person would be doing prep/IPS/frame before you started. Sounds like 29 hours is throw-off, bundle and deliver yes? Or just delivery? (being Christmas as 22 hours contract normally would just be bundle and walk).

It's quite usual for a FT to do his prep and delivery in 29 hours, as the other 10 hours are office-based, which you don't have on a 22-hrs contract.

Something doesn't add-up here as unless he/she did office work before you started they wouldn't be FT.

Anyway, aside from that you now have a permanent contract so USE IT to your advantage. Insist from now on you want dropping back on your time UNTIL all the outstanding OT has been entered on the system to your satisfaction. Once that's done, state you want a procedure agreed with the DIM to extend, including a sheet to sign and fill every time you are back late with the minutes/hours you are claiming. I can't see why this isn't in place and effective already. Say you are fed-up with the aggro of claiming, and as you are so cr*p or slow he/she will surely not want you there longer than necessary so surely won't want you doing any extra hours from now-on.

Trust me the DIMs are lazy mentally too, and any aggro they'll want to avoid, especially at Xmas. Obviously say it firmly and politely but do not work for nothing, or do extra when they are recalcitrant about paying outstanding docket.

Ok. I start at 7, FTimer starts at 7. We both prep for an hour, he goes off to sort for 30 mins or so. In that time i continue to prep mine and help finish his. We do delivery, my finish time should 12.30, his is 2 pm. We finish at 1pm. I get an extra hour and a half for coming in early/going over (thats if im paid or the manager agrees to it). He gets to finish an hour early and still get paid.

(It varies daily incase you are wondering why the math doesnt add up)

Ive nothing against the Full timer(s) personally

But it doest sit right with me that i start and finish the same time and get paid less for doing the same job.