The management lieu day scandal

[MAILMAN84]

Okay guys need some advice.

Been with rm 10 years and always had this problem but its worse now as our boss is as sneaky as they come. When you're a reserve you can usually guarantee every bank holiday will be your day off. The managers are supposed to add each day to your lieu days yeh? Computer dlesnt do it automatically cuz it seems RM encourages scalping of lieu days for posties who don't keep track. Now I must have weeks and weeks I don't want any carried over but they never get allocated and I've asked the boss for months for my sheet and he won't give me it. Worse yet I've had 3 weeks off this year and cuz I'm on paternity now hes not given me winter leave so he could easily be putting this through as holidays. Apparently nobody can get access to my sheet apart from him so I just have to accept im getting taken for a ride?

[Nondescript]

Next time the filthy bastard prints off your leave sheet keep it handy and every time you are given a bank holiday as your day off write it on the sheet, then take it in and show the conniving snake oil selling scum when he starts to speak with forked tongue.

[enskied]

If you get given Bank Holiday as your day off insist on getting a Bank Holiday Excess payment rather than a day in lieu.. That stops them doing it as the payment comes from their OT budget.

[MAILMAN84]

Yeah he refused to pay them till I went higher up so that's what I do now but still got 3-4 weeks in lieu now so how can I get to see them? he wont print the sheet off

[TrueBlueTerrier]

This is a classic grievance case. But you would need to write down the days that were given in Lieu but not taken.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Assuming you're in the union, get the Rep on to it.
Get it flagged up to Area Rep and/or Div Rep.

Ring HR and ask them if they can provide it (don't think they can).
Then ask their advice. It may be a grievance.
Don't stop pursuing this matter.

An email to Moya may help - justsayit@royalmail.com.

Though none of this should be happening, the manager should provide you with your leave card upon request.
And the fact they won't is immeasurably suspicious.

[MAILMAN84]

I came out the union after the last agreement but that's a different story. Our union rep does nothing. Sits back and watches everything, even jokes that everyone can easily manage the lapsing we're getting.

[UnhappyGremlin]

I came out the union after the last agreement but that's a different story. Our union rep does nothing. Sits back and watches everything, even jokes that everyone can easily manage the lapsing we're getting.

I am a Rep.
If I was like yours apparently is, I'd be removed by the staff very quickly.

This wouldn't be an issue in my unit. It is completely wrong.
In the unlikely event I had to solve this issue, it would be done in less than 30 seconds.

In my unit, whenever leave is issued/changed or whatever, staff get an immediate reprint. NO exceptions.

If there are others in your unit in the same boat, it may be of benefit for you all to take the same actions.

E-mail Moya, take out grievances.

[MAILMAN84]

Tbh I know you're right and I can't figure out why our unit seems to be putting up with it. A lot of them just "want a quiet life" but we're at the stage were things like the following are happening every day:

1) Lapsing 3-4 duties to cover vacancies (we've got loads as the 9am starts are just walking out after a week of no training)

We lapse every day. If it's every door we lapse, quiet we lapse more. If we have a bulk delivery he tells us to 'go to the doors we're going to'....even when it's bsuy anyway.

2) No breaks.

Everyone's always worked through their breaks and yeh that's our fault there but that probably won't change. I'm on about the 9am starts tho. Someone in our unit was pulled aside just for telling the 9am starts they were entitled to a break. They are supposed to finish at 1.35 or something on certain days but they're getting bullied over their time. They don't have their frames ran in for them, d2ds prepped nothing. The lapsing walks are always ready for them starting though.

3) No means yes.

We tell the managers can't lapse no way. 3 packet bags (we'll be lapsing at xmas no questions). They say it's only 7 minutes so you have to. They say you'll get conduct meeting if you cut off. Our manager now doesn't let us put overtime down. Only he is allowed to write on the sheet. You go in before you leave to tell him you'll be over and he bullies you into saying you won't. Then he takes the sheet with him so when you ask him about the overtime, he bullies u into not claiming it again. If you finally do claim it, he doesn't pay it anyway (always claims the system was down)

4) No work time learning

We don't get briefs, work time learning, training nothing. He uses any spare time to lapse duties. We get briefed on 2D barcodes and tracked performance on the lapsing walks. We're all exhausted and getting bullied because we are letting performance slip on the 2 20 minute bits of lapsing we get every day (that are nowhere near each other)

5) Reserves get every bank holiday as day off

As said before, I got about 4 weeks in lieu and can't get my sheet. Always "i'll get it for u later".

6) SICK

I'm off sick just now. Vomited on my duty got the shivers, the runs the lot. Got a baby due any day. I've not been off sick since March. I've had 16 missed calls and a dozen texts asking when I'm coming back (first call an hour after I phoned in asking if I felt better). Then he said he'd started my paternity leave from when I went off sick which I know isn't legal. Screenshotted all the text messages btw (if theres a union rep who fancies a look)

I've never seen anything like this in my whole working career. After writing all this I realise myself this is all management. I need some advice tho, if I put a H1 form in am I going to get singled out? something has to be done. I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown from a job that involves putting paper through holes lol. It's unreal.


Aw yeah and the boss turns up at 9am every day, is away by 11am and cuts your overtime for being 10 minutes late.

[Lincox]

I need some advice tho, if I put a H1 form in am I going to get singled out? something has to be done. I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown from a job that involves putting paper through holes lol. It's unreal.


You do not have to accept this nonsense from anyone. Of course he will try to single you out, but you have to be strong. You have all the right on your side and you should put in an immediate grievance. Stick to what has happened to YOU. Be prepared for all manner of delays in the procedures. I am talking from a position of experience from having gone through this four to five years ago and it took me 18 months to get a result and get the nasty little bastard moved elsewhere. You need to build up a full proof case against this tosser, so be prepared to note everything down, get witnesses and most importantly make sure that you do your job to the book as he will be looking for any chink in your armour. But doing nothing, in the long term will destroy you. Taking this problem on will make you a much stronger person and will make sure you never get taken for granted again.

[rambo1]

Tbh I know you're right and I can't figure out why our unit seems to be putting up with it. A lot of them just "want a quiet life" but we're at the stage were things like the following are happening every day:

1) Lapsing 3-4 duties to cover vacancies (we've got loads as the 9am starts are just walking out after a week of no training)

We lapse every day. If it's every door we lapse, quiet we lapse more. If we have a bulk delivery he tells us to 'go to the doors we're going to'....even when it's bsuy anyway.

2) No breaks.

Everyone's always worked through their breaks and yeh that's our fault there but that probably won't change. I'm on about the 9am starts tho. Someone in our unit was pulled aside just for telling the 9am starts they were entitled to a break. They are supposed to finish at 1.35 or something on certain days but they're getting bullied over their time. They don't have their frames ran in for them, d2ds prepped nothing. The lapsing walks are always ready for them starting though.

3) No means yes.

We tell the managers can't lapse no way. 3 packet bags (we'll be lapsing at xmas no questions). They say it's only 7 minutes so you have to. They say you'll get conduct meeting if you cut off. Our manager now doesn't let us put overtime down. Only he is allowed to write on the sheet. You go in before you leave to tell him you'll be over and he bullies you into saying you won't. Then he takes the sheet with him so when you ask him about the overtime, he bullies u into not claiming it again. If you finally do claim it, he doesn't pay it anyway (always claims the system was down)

4) No work time learning

We don't get briefs, work time learning, training nothing. He uses any spare time to lapse duties. We get briefed on 2D barcodes and tracked performance on the lapsing walks. We're all exhausted and getting bullied because we are letting performance slip on the 2 20 minute bits of lapsing we get every day (that are nowhere near each other)

5) Reserves get every bank holiday as day off

As said before, I got about 4 weeks in lieu and can't get my sheet. Always "i'll get it for u later".

6) SICK

I'm off sick just now. Vomited on my duty got the shivers, the runs the lot. Got a baby due any day. I've not been off sick since March. I've had 16 missed calls and a dozen texts asking when I'm coming back (first call an hour after I phoned in asking if I felt better). Then he said he'd started my paternity leave from when I went off sick which I know isn't legal. Screenshotted all the text messages btw (if theres a union rep who fancies a look)

I've never seen anything like this in my whole working career. After writing all this I realise myself this is all management. I need some advice tho, if I put a H1 form in am I going to get singled out? something has to be done. I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown from a job that involves putting paper through holes lol. It's unreal.


Aw yeah and the boss turns up at 9am every day, is away by 11am and cuts your overtime for being 10 minutes late.

Look, mate. This is very easy to sort out. If your office is run as abysmally as you say, you really have to email moya. It's very easy to do and I promise they WILL look into it. It really needs to be sorted. You have a duty to inform moya, believe me, they will come down like a ton of bricks on your dom.

[MAILMAN84]

Tbh I know you're right and I can't figure out why our unit seems to be putting up with it. A lot of them just "want a quiet life" but we're at the stage were things like the following are happening every day:

1) Lapsing 3-4 duties to cover vacancies (we've got loads as the 9am starts are just walking out after a week of no training)

We lapse every day. If it's every door we lapse, quiet we lapse more. If we have a bulk delivery he tells us to 'go to the doors we're going to'....even when it's bsuy anyway.

2) No breaks.

Everyone's always worked through their breaks and yeh that's our fault there but that probably won't change. I'm on about the 9am starts tho. Someone in our unit was pulled aside just for telling the 9am starts they were entitled to a break. They are supposed to finish at 1.35 or something on certain days but they're getting bullied over their time. They don't have their frames ran in for them, d2ds prepped nothing. The lapsing walks are always ready for them starting though.

3) No means yes.

We tell the managers can't lapse no way. 3 packet bags (we'll be lapsing at xmas no questions). They say it's only 7 minutes so you have to. They say you'll get conduct meeting if you cut off. Our manager now doesn't let us put overtime down. Only he is allowed to write on the sheet. You go in before you leave to tell him you'll be over and he bullies you into saying you won't. Then he takes the sheet with him so when you ask him about the overtime, he bullies u into not claiming it again. If you finally do claim it, he doesn't pay it anyway (always claims the system was down)

4) No work time learning

We don't get briefs, work time learning, training nothing. He uses any spare time to lapse duties. We get briefed on 2D barcodes and tracked performance on the lapsing walks. We're all exhausted and getting bullied because we are letting performance slip on the 2 20 minute bits of lapsing we get every day (that are nowhere near each other)

5) Reserves get every bank holiday as day off

As said before, I got about 4 weeks in lieu and can't get my sheet. Always "i'll get it for u later".

6) SICK

I'm off sick just now. Vomited on my duty got the shivers, the runs the lot. Got a baby due any day. I've not been off sick since March. I've had 16 missed calls and a dozen texts asking when I'm coming back (first call an hour after I phoned in asking if I felt better). Then he said he'd started my paternity leave from when I went off sick which I know isn't legal. Screenshotted all the text messages btw (if theres a union rep who fancies a look)

I've never seen anything like this in my whole working career. After writing all this I realise myself this is all management. I need some advice tho, if I put a H1 form in am I going to get singled out? something has to be done. I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown from a job that involves putting paper through holes lol. It's unreal.


Aw yeah and the boss turns up at 9am every day, is away by 11am and cuts your overtime for being 10 minutes late.

Look, mate. This is very easy to sort out. If your office is run as abysmally as you say, you really have to email moya. It's very easy to do and I promise they WILL look into it. It really needs to be sorted. You have a duty to inform moya, believe me, they will come down like a ton of bricks on your dom.

Really? Okay. I've just sent it the now. Thanks guys for all the advice.

[dvbuk55]

TBH if you've been with RM for ten years and allowed yourself and your colleagues to be treated in this way it's no wonder the managers think they can get away with it because for a decade you've allowed them to

[MAILMAN84]

TBH if you've been with RM for ten years and allowed yourself and your colleagues to be treated in this way it's no wonder the managers think they can get away with it because for a decade you've allowed them to

Thanks for the assumption but our manager has been here a year. I don't get bullied but I've never seen a manager this devious in my life.

[dvbuk55]

TBH if you've been with RM for ten years and allowed yourself and your colleagues to be treated in this way it's no wonder the managers think they can get away with it because for a decade you've allowed them to

Thanks for the assumption but our manager has been here a year. I don't get bullied but I've never seen a manager this devious in my life.

By that same assumption if it isn't 10 years then even a year is too long to let them get away with it, you are being bullied by default by not doing anything about it. Try HR to get a record of your Bank Holiday attendances with the explanation that your manager "refuses" to give you a copy, even if he hasn't technically refused he hasn't given you a copy. If you can do that by email cc him in. People should always remember that like you he is an employee of RM and the rules apply to him just as much as they do to you. As a matter of interest for a number of my last 25 years and they asked me to work overtime I explained that I would but only for time off in lieu, I totted up the hours owed and then said I won't be in Friday or Monday or whatever day suited me whenever it suited me.