Work time directive @ Xmas

makingsounds · Post by **makingsounds** » 15 Sep 2016, 16:54

Hearing rumours that the restriction on OPG's doing overtime taking them over the 70 hours a week is being lifted during Xmas pressure, any truth?

If correct, why at Xmas and not the rest of the year.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 15 Sep 2016, 17:18

It's barmy really.

How can they argue working more than 70 hours is a H&S issue, but at Christmas when the days are shorter, we're out in the cold and dark, it's ok to do a 90 hour week.

The agreement capped the hours at 65 anyway, god knows why that's not being followed either.

5.2.2 From week commencing 6th October 2003, the maximum will be reduced to an average of 48 net hours with no single week exceeding 65 gross hours.

http://www.cwuni.org.uk/id35.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

collierrow · Post by **collierrow** » 15 Sep 2016, 20:55

its called when it suits mate goes on in royal mail everyday

Surreypostie · Post by **Surreypostie** » 19 Sep 2016, 18:47

makingsounds wrote:Hearing rumours that the restriction on OPG's doing overtime taking them over the 70 hours a week is being lifted during Xmas pressure, any truth?

If correct, why at Xmas and not the rest of the year.

Why would you want to work that many hours? I will be doing my normal hours. Do as many or as few as you wish, they can't make you work 90 hours!

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 19 Sep 2016, 19:14

I will be doing 39 hour's no more no less!

steve1873 · Post by **steve1873** » 21 Sep 2016, 13:38

makingsounds wrote:Hearing rumours that the restriction on OPG's doing overtime taking them over the 70 hours a week is being lifted during Xmas pressure, any truth?

If correct, why at Xmas and not the rest of the year.

You can opt out of the WTD at any time of the year.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 23 Sep 2016, 10:36

For the record you cannot opt out of the Collective Working time Agreement between Royal Mail and the CWU. This agreement is contained in the Way Forward Agreement 2000 section 7.

Royal Mail have given directors a job to ensure that they reduce anyone from working above the maximum 70 hours. They review this weekly.

The working time agreement for the 4 weeks at Christmas changes too

For 4 weeks of Christmas the maximum will be gross hours limit of 72 hours.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 23 Sep 2016, 12:17

dingo wrote: Royal Mail have given directors a job to ensure that they reduce anyone from working above the maximum 70 hours. They review this weekly.

Do we know what their motive behind this decision is? It's perfectly legal to work in excess of 70 hours if you volunteer to do so.

Martin Walsh · Post by **Martin Walsh** » 23 Sep 2016, 15:20

norm wrote:
dingo wrote: Royal Mail have given directors a job to ensure that they reduce anyone from working above the maximum 70 hours. They review this weekly.
Do we know what their motive behind this decision is? It's perfectly legal to work in excess of 70 hours if you volunteer to do so.

Not in Royal Mail. Remember a collective agreement becomes an implied contract of employment.

The Working Time Agreement in 2000 followed the Working Time Directive legal regulations coming into force in 1998.

Bullet points from the Agreement are

The Agreement will cover all employees in Royal Mail represented by the CWU.

The definition of working time is any time an employee is working and is at the business disposal and carrying out business activities and duties.

All employees will have the opportunity to opt out of the 48 hour average lime but will not be allowed to work above 48 hours per week.

Those employees who wish to work beyond 48 hours will have to sign a waiver.

From the week commencing 2nd October 2000 the maximum working week any individual can work is 70 hours including meal reliefs.

From week commencing 6th October 2003 there must be an uninterrupted break from work of 11 hours within any 24 hour period.

In terms of why is Royal Mail now being very strict on these regulations is I understand down to very heavy criticism by the HSE following a serious accident and the fact the Royal Mail had no idea of how many hours an individual worked. This is why they are now stopping individuals who are working above 70 hours as this is now reviewed each week.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 23 Sep 2016, 17:17

As well as the H&S and contractual issues there is a drive on to reduce overall overtime and determine whether it's an "efficient" use of resources and obviously those doing the most will become first targets, I think we all know that 70 hours worked doesn't always equate to 70 hours of work. Overtime has always been royal mail's least efficient area of labour costs.

k979aaa · Post by **k979aaa** » 23 Sep 2016, 17:33

fishtank wrote:As well as the H&S and contractual issues there is a drive on to reduce overall overtime and determine whether it's an "efficient" use of resources and obviously those doing the most will become first targets, I think we all know that 70 hours worked doesn't always equate to 70 hours of work. Overtime has always been royal mail's least efficient area of labour costs.

After management!

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 23 Sep 2016, 19:31

fishtank wrote:As well as the H&S and contractual issues there is a drive on to reduce overall overtime and determine whether it's an "efficient" use of resources and obviously those doing the most will become first targets, I think we all know that 70 hours worked doesn't always equate to 70 hours of work. Overtime has always been royal mail's least efficient area of labour costs.

Well before this imposed limit I used to work OT Saturdays, even though the pay was not enhanced, it was extra earning potential. But now there's no incentive to do it, I may as well work OT Mon-Fri stay under 70 hours and enjoy my weekend after doing a single delivery on Saturday.

As a result, in my office lots more mail is stacking up on Saturday than there was before, because others are taking the same approach.

Saturday is the hardest day to convince people to do OT on already, this has compounded the situation even more.

Post by **stodgy88** » 29 Sep 2016, 18:48

with regards to H&S,had a video last week,regarding taking your breaks ,as fatigue causes accidents,follow day the manager said we were lapsing 2 walks,and a couple piped up that they had been forty minutes late the previous day ,and hadnt taken any breaks,manager just walked off,real shame to see peoples lives ruled by fear of management.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 29 Sep 2016, 19:56

stodgy88 wrote:with regards to H&S,had a video last week,regarding taking your breaks ,as fatigue causes accidents,follow day the manager said we were lapsing 2 walks,and a couple piped up that they had been forty minutes late the previous day ,and hadnt taken any breaks,manager just walked off,real shame to see peoples lives ruled by fear of management.

The manager has nothing to do with this. Your H&S is your responsibility. If people choose to work instead of taking their paid break, then more fool them.

wannabeek · Post by **wannabeek** » 30 Sep 2016, 23:17

Manager probably walked off laughing at them for putting free money from their pocket into his. Why would someone choose not to take a paid break and then complain to the boss about it? Madness.

I'm sure it is illegal to work over 70hrs because I used to work 2 full time jobs before that EU law came in and I was forced to cut one job to part time hours. Sucked initially so I used the extra time to eBay stuff, was the only way I could see to get round the rule.

I don't do those crazy hours now but I've no need to nowadays because I did it when I was young. Can't see the problem if someone is wanting to build up a good sum of money to get on in life.