This 'Lapsing' nonsense

MAILMAN84 · Post by **MAILMAN84** » 16 Sep 2016, 16:56

Okay I need this cleared up. At the moment our office is about 7-8 staff short. As per the great new RM savings plan, we have about 2 full timers for the sorting, 2 for the packets and a lot of flexed up part timers. The mail is horrific to the point we're having to put half to the side so they can lapse 3-4 duties. Most people take their 30-40 mins lapsing on top of their 4:15 duties as they don't want to have an argument. If you leave it or say you're going to cut off what is the best way to ensure you don't get taken down conduct?

Surely lapsing should be done on mail volume and at this time of year, should be stopped. Obviously our boss thinks he's the kingpin so of course our office is massively under budget and he looks like a king while the morale is in the pan. 4 24 hour contracts started in January, and all are gone. Come in at 9am to sequenced in and asked why they cant lapse when other people can do it etc. No breaks for anyone.Shambles.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 16 Sep 2016, 17:08

The first thing you need to do is call an office meeting, with the rep and preferably someone from your branch, if there's no stomach for standing up to this you're wasting your time.

The overrunning delivery procedure is there to help but it sounds like you're a long way from organising the details, work on the big picture first.

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 16 Sep 2016, 17:11

MAILMAN84 wrote:Okay I need this cleared up. At the moment our office is about 7-8 staff short. As per the great new RM savings plan, we have about 2 full timers for the sorting, 2 for the packets and a lot of flexed up part timers. The mail is horrific to the point we're having to put half to the side so they can lapse 3-4 duties. Most people take their 30-40 mins lapsing on top of their 4:15 duties as they don't want to have an argument. If you leave it or say you're going to cut off what is the best way to ensure you don't get taken down conduct?

Surely lapsing should be done on mail volume and at this time of year, should be stopped. Obviously our boss thinks he's the kingpin so of course our office is massively under budget and he looks like a king while the morale is in the pan. 4 24 hour contracts started in January, and all are gone. Come in at 9am to sequenced in and asked why they cant lapse when other people can do it etc. No breaks for anyone.Shambles.

don't worry about it this is happening all over and its thanks to our leader bob Gibson to save jobs

, it was summer lapsing week 10 - week 22 , but surprise surprise all they have done is change the name to working to demand and the cwu know this is happening , but don't seem bothered , and yes your right it is suppose to be done daily on the traffic figs but if your rep isn't getting weekly si meetings will dim like ours they can do what they like and doctor the figs as usual , but what I will say is you have a start time and a finish time regardless of what they give you to do , just stick to your guns an inform them before you go out that you wont complete within your contracted hours and you will be bringing stuff back , and get your office rep there when you tell them .

postslippete · Post by **postslippete** » 16 Sep 2016, 17:58

Its been like this at our depot for months and it destroys morale big time.

For us, we never seem to know when we are going to get lapsing until we arrive in morning and look at the signing on sheets and find a duty or duties that are not covered. But worst still is when lapsing plans are still pursued when it is clear that there is an avalanche of mail and packets, and managers still go out of their way to try and coerce staff into doing extra work (for nothing). And the truth is, regardless of whether its a busy day or not, if you still think that you are going to work past your time and you don't want to then you need to tell them that some mail/packets will likely be brought back to the office.

If enough of you work in this manner then, and only then, will the managers perhaps re-think their strategy

mancpat · Post by **mancpat** » 16 Sep 2016, 18:01

MAILMAN84 wrote:Okay I need this cleared up. At the moment our office is about 7-8 staff short. As per the great new RM savings plan, we have about 2 full timers for the sorting, 2 for the packets and a lot of flexed up part timers. The mail is horrific to the point we're having to put half to the side so they can lapse 3-4 duties. Most people take their 30-40 mins lapsing on top of their 4:15 duties as they don't want to have an argument. If you leave it or say you're going to cut off what is the best way to ensure you don't get taken down conduct?

Surely lapsing should be done on mail volume and at this time of year, should be stopped. Obviously our boss thinks he's the kingpin so of course our office is massively under budget and he looks like a king while the morale is in the pan. 4 24 hour contracts started in January, and all are gone. Come in at 9am to sequenced in and asked why they cant lapse when other people can do it etc. No breaks for anyone.Shambles.

No breaks? There's your problem.

We are quite lucky in that we have a Dom who is approachable and will tell you what is happening. They do have figures and decide on lapsing from them figures.

However people coming in early and not having breaks make those figures look wrong. The DSM and those above see that people are finishing early and lapse more. People come in even earlier then and the cycle goes on.

We're our own worst enemies in this job yet most blame the management. They're just managing. Coming in early and not taking breaks is creating problems for those who do the job properly and stifling part timers who want full time hours.

Yet some selfish people don't see this and just have a moan and want to get home early. All a DSM sees is that there are spare hours in the office so more lapsing and no more full timers.

In the meantime DOMS all over the country are having arguments on a daily basis about lapsing.

If your office is coming in at the same time and taking breaks then you're right to complain about lapsing. If not then look at your work mates first and foremost.

hellpop · Post by **hellpop** » 16 Sep 2016, 19:21

At our office the Dom tried new tactics. He shortened a handful of the walks by about ten minutes but then gives us collapsing which takes a good twenty minutes.we even get it put on us on the really busy Wednesday's and Thursday's now.

seaside · Post by **seaside** » 16 Sep 2016, 21:20

With people coming in early, not taking breaks, just to try and finish on time. others coming in on time taking their breaks , but going way past their time. AS to bring back work, they are worried that they will be classed as to slow for the job. feels like Victorian times in the job. But we do have a union in the job that we pay for, maybe 1 day they will help.

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 16 Sep 2016, 21:35

to the OPs original question. You tell the manager at a reasonably early point that you wont be able to complete on time and want to finish on time. Thats basically it, whatever they come back to you with make sure you dont agree to completing anything you dont think can reasonably be done. Theyll probably tell you to take it all out, so you just come back on time and bring back whatever you havent got delivered and make sure you come back early enough to book stuff back in ie dont just get back to the office at the finish time.
If the managers try some bullying tactics id make the cwu local/ area rep aware. Also make sure you take your breaks, theyre yours not RMs

worktotime · Post by **worktotime** » 16 Sep 2016, 21:36

seaside wrote:With people coming in early, not taking breaks, just to try and finish on time. others coming in on time taking their breaks , but going way past their time. AS to bring back work, they are worried that they will be classed as to slow for the job. feels like Victorian times in the job. But we do have a union in the job that we pay for, maybe 1 day they will help.

don't hold your breath for them to help as it was bob Gibson who agreed to all this s**t in the first place with r/m , there more bothered about trying to get Jeremy corbyn as labour leader , which has allowed this company to treat the staff like s**t daily.

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 16 Sep 2016, 22:38

Postie45 wrote:to the OPs original question. You tell the manager at a reasonably early point that you wont be able to complete on time and want to finish on time. Thats basically it, whatever they come back to you with make sure you dont agree to completing anything you dont think can reasonably be done. Theyll probably tell you to take it all out, so you just come back on time and bring back whatever you havent got delivered and make sure you come back early enough to book stuff back in ie dont just get back to the office at the finish time.
If the managers try some bullying tactics id make the cwu local/ area rep aware. Also make sure you take your breaks, theyre yours not RMs

That's not the cut off procedure. Don't take it all out if you don't think just you can complete it within your time.

Do not bring mail back

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 16 Sep 2016, 22:55

Creditshampoo wrote:
Postie45 wrote:to the OPs original question. You tell the manager at a reasonably early point that you wont be able to complete on time and want to finish on time. Thats basically it, whatever they come back to you with make sure you dont agree to completing anything you dont think can reasonably be done. Theyll probably tell you to take it all out, so you just come back on time and bring back whatever you havent got delivered and make sure you come back early enough to book stuff back in ie dont just get back to the office at the finish time.
If the managers try some bullying tactics id make the cwu local/ area rep aware. Also make sure you take your breaks, theyre yours not RMs
That's not the cut off procedure. Don't take it all out if you don't think just you can complete it within your time.

Do not bring mail back

it depends where you work, in my office this is what they do, i know in other offices its this way too. They will then give whatever is brought back to someone on overtime. If they ask you to do this its a reasonable request and certainly not something I would argue over.

Pidleypoo · Post by **Pidleypoo** » 17 Sep 2016, 05:48

If you work in an office where people don't use correct delivery methods and don't take breaks and work for free it's your own fault and responsibility that it's got to this stage.managers of course will let this happen as it saves money and helps their own bonuses.you have a start and finishg time so if you do the job properly you've no problem but the ones who say they are scared,please grow up and act like the adults you should be.

Newbie001 · Post by **Newbie001** » 17 Sep 2016, 13:27

Until they stop job and finish, which still happens in a lot of offices. People are going keep coming in early, not taking breaks and rushing in the hope they finish early. And managers are going to see all the early finishers and keep lapsing duties. Totally agree, we bring it on ourselves.

fishtank · Post by **fishtank** » 17 Sep 2016, 14:11

Newbie001 wrote:Until they stop job and finish, which still happens in a lot of offices. People are going keep coming in early, not taking breaks and rushing in the hope they finish early. And managers are going to see all the early finishers and keep lapsing duties. Totally agree, we bring it on ourselves.

They stopped it in 2007.
The fact that a national agreement is not adhered to is unfortunately the fault of the office rep through the weekly resource meeting and the national officers who all know the consequences of allowing a practice that undermines jobs.

The carrot is there because management at local level are allowed to put it there, blaming the donkey for eating it is lazy.

Newbie001 · Post by **Newbie001** » 17 Sep 2016, 15:16

fishtank wrote:
Newbie001 wrote:Until they stop job and finish, which still happens in a lot of offices. People are going keep coming in early, not taking breaks and rushing in the hope they finish early. And managers are going to see all the early finishers and keep lapsing duties. Totally agree, we bring it on ourselves.
They stopped it in 2007.
The fact that a national agreement is not adhered to is unfortunately the fault of the office rep through the weekly resource meeting and the national officers who all know the consequences of allowing a practice that undermines jobs.

The carrot is there because management at local level are allowed to put it there, blaming the donkey for eating it is lazy.

Been told hundred times by rep to start on time, take breaks etc. And can count on one hand how many posties actually listen to them. Not sure how much power a rep actually has, so can't comment on if they're doing job properly or not.