When does mail become live?

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Jul 2016, 15:28

Hello I am not sure if anyone can help me in regards to when mail becomes live.

I have asked a couple of cwu representatives this question with different responses read below:
1. Mail is live from the moment it is posted and we collect it from post boxes, post offices or from customers directly.
2. Mail is live once it has been processed through the mail centres and is dispatched to delivery offices.
3. Mail is live once it enters your delivery office.

All well and good but I also asked the same question today from my Dom and DSM with the following responses:
1. Mail is live once it has been processed through your delivery office IPS and is designated to individual duties.
2. Mail is live only after it has been prepped into individual duty frames .
This is vitally important as I need to know up until what point can managers class mail not leaving the office as workplan failures and not USO failures.
Is there any other agreements that need to be adhered to apart from over running deliveries 3.1 and 3.2.

WOBBLY · Post by **WOBBLY** » 13 Jul 2016, 16:24

afaik mail is live from the moment it is posted or collected until the moment it's delivered or (if undeliverable) 739'd/endorsed/killed off.

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Jul 2016, 17:45

Would there be anything in the USO agreement regarding this?
Just so that it could be used to show to the managers

Anyone have any knowledge on these matters

ninja · Post by **ninja** » 13 Jul 2016, 19:24

Below has been taken from the DODR user guide and have also attached the USO quick guide. I remember Crozier when asked about his time at Royal Mail he replied that he could never understand why the culture of RM managers was to lie about the USO failures and whilst this remained the company wouldn't be able to deal with solving the problems around quality.

PLEASE NOTE: Any delivery route which is less than 100% completed, (unless the address has already been properly classified as an exception to USO) should be reported as a delivery route failure. There is no tolerance, if we do not deliver to one or more address(es) we MUST report it as either a Part or Full delivery routes failure via DODR.

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Jul 2016, 20:20

After reading that document I now know why the managers are so insistent on getting staff to push the mail under the frames - it dont classify as a USO failure!

The only legitimate way we can fight back is to follow the national agreements regarding over running deliveries however managers are using the guise of you have to follow a reasonable instruction from them or else your going down the conduct line

enskied · Post by **enskied** » 13 Jul 2016, 20:24

Not sure on the technicallity of when mail becomes *live*.

For me on Delivery, I have always been told the moment I sort it into my delivery frame it is "live" and must be delivered. Nothing must be removed from the frame or left in the frame for posting the next day.

Any mail left unsorted into your frame is still in the pipeline and the managers resposibility. Once prepped it is live !

But I have had many different senarios at work, as I am sure you have yourself.

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Jul 2016, 20:38

Yeah know what you mean but I still think the cwu should be able to stop rogue managers from understaffing offices and then telling staff to push mail under the frames before it is prepped just so that it dont get registered as a USO failure. Were will this all end if the managers can twist things to suit themselves and there office budgets

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 13 Jul 2016, 20:43

It's live the moment it's posted

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 13 Jul 2016, 20:53

Read the RM document posted by Nina earlier on today ehich contradicts this. I also held this belief up until today totally confused

wannabeek · Post by **wannabeek** » 13 Jul 2016, 21:47

Heard of someone locally got in major trouble because 'live' mail they called it, was found in the van glove box. It was a handful of letters collected from a postbox. Heaven knows why they put it in the glove box and then forgot about it, but it was certainly called live mail at the time of the incident.

enskied · Post by **enskied** » 13 Jul 2016, 21:54

SpacePhoenix wrote:It's live the moment it's posted

Yes, but no.

2nd Class can be held for days before it ever arrives at your DO. Same with Mailsort. It all depends on workload...and we all know how good they are ae managing that

Once in your delivery frame it is, or should, be on it's way.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 13 Jul 2016, 23:29

Any thing left in the office whether it's in or under a frame, behind the bike shed, or where the f**k ever is a failure and should be reported as so.
Managers are doing a great job of screwing you over by screwing the figures.

Reps should be on the ball as to what is or isn't being reported.
At the end of the day, by managers screwing around jobs are being lost, or proper staffing levels are not being used.

Post by **SpacePhoenix** » 14 Jul 2016, 06:44

enskied wrote:
SpacePhoenix wrote:It's live the moment it's posted
Yes, but no.

2nd Class can be held for days before it ever arrives at your DO. Same with Mailsort. It all depends on workload...and we all know how good they are ae managing that

Once in your delivery frame it is, or should, be on it's way.

Mailsort arrives at the Inward MC the day before it's due for delivery.

2nd class gets sent out to the Inward MCs the day after its posted and is delivered the day after that, keeping to its proper spec

gerardy · Post by **gerardy** » 14 Jul 2016, 13:00

This sounds a lot like the delivery office I work in maybe I know you trouble. Is this a common problem within Royal Mail?

trouble · Post by **trouble** » 14 Jul 2016, 19:06

Told the managers I would not go beyond me finish time today as they are not putting enough extra help on to help out with all the extra post due to the 12th.
When I returned to the office managers were all gone but a note was left on me frame asking me to attend a meeting next week about why I cant work overtime and possibly moving me onto a different duty to allow me to finish on time.
Can they do this!