Quandary ...

RedBagMan · Post by **RedBagMan** » 08 Jun 2016, 19:05

Can I just run this by a few ...

Daughter's 30th Birthday celebs this weekend - doing the three peaks, and will be doing Scafell on the Sunday. Plan was for me and missus to travel up on Friday - set up camp and cooking etc (there's about 12 peeps going) so all ready for Saturday afternoon (the crowd are doing Snowdon on the Friday and then heading up to Wasdale on Saturday)

My day off this week = Friday

Like most places (I guess) asking for a Saturday off is a waste of time ... I know many peeps who will start "feeling poorly" on the Friday and then phone in sick on the Saturday a.m. However these peeps are mostly under the age of 40 - and see "wagging off" as a way of life (and they seem to get away with it !). Me (nearly 60) have been umming and aaahing about this whole "setup" all week - being from the generation where "work ethic" actually meant something.

What does the team think ???

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 08 Jun 2016, 19:26

Saturday as annual leave ? Pay someone cash to work it ?

Post by **Judgee** » 08 Jun 2016, 19:29

Cash cover? Pay a work mate to cover you on the Saturday. Works out expensive these days I think it's about £80 in out office. As long as management agree and your mate confirms he will be "helping" you out on a Saturday it could be the answer?

Postie45 · Post by **Postie45** » 08 Jun 2016, 19:59

well, if you do decide to take off, i guess you lose your "better work ethic" claim. Personally i would just take it off if its impossible to book saturdays off.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 08 Jun 2016, 20:03

The protestant work ethic = work your arse off all your life, not for the money, but to prove your worth (to God).
Works well for capitalism.

No thanks.

How about the Catholic approach - do the sin, then repent later at your leisure.

Either way, I'm sure you'll have God on your side

daveyeff · Post by **daveyeff** » 08 Jun 2016, 21:07

Judgee wrote:Cash cover? Pay a work mate to cover you on the Saturday. Works out expensive these days I think it's about £80 in out office. As long as management agree and your mate confirms he will be "helping" you out on a Saturday it could be the answer?

there is a lad in our office has raised the bar for getting duties covered, cos he pays a 100 quid to get his covered and he's done it about 4 times this last few months (horse racing nutter). I remember when it used to be 20-25 quid. i would rather go sick. no scruples.

In The Know · Post by **In The Know** » 08 Jun 2016, 21:08

A person goes sick for a week and sticks pics on Facebook from cornwall and then brings in fudge on the Monday. You couldn't make it up

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 08 Jun 2016, 21:27

going on sick leave when not on sick is dishonest, also if you receive any statutory sick pay and your not actually sick, you are actually receiving the statutory sick pay under false pretences and it could be considered fraud, you are basically defrauding the tax payer

if caught it can also be considered dishonest gross misconduct and you could be dismissed

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 08 Jun 2016, 21:34

zx135 wrote:going on sick leave when not on sick is dishonest, also if you receive any statutory sick pay and your not actually sick, you are actually receiving the statutory sick pay under false pretences and it could be considered fraud, you are basically defrauding the tax payer

if caught it can also be considered dishonest gross misconduct and you could be dismissed

I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted zx - but just as a matter of interest, how could it be proved to be fraudulent if the doc has given a sick note for stress ?

I don't believe that it can - and its a card that is getting played week in week out. In a sense I don't mind RM picking up the tab (or at least, its not my foremost concern), what I object to is an individual sitting in front of a health professional and lying.

Why would the doc not give the sick note ? - why take that risk, and then the individual in question goes and tops themselves, for example.

Post by **aiden01** » 08 Jun 2016, 23:30

daveyeff wrote:
Judgee wrote:Cash cover? Pay a work mate to cover you on the Saturday. Works out expensive these days I think it's about £80 in out office. As long as management agree and your mate confirms he will be "helping" you out on a Saturday it could be the answer?
there is a lad in our office has raised the bar for getting duties covered, cos he pays a 100 quid to get his covered and he's done it about 4 times this last few months (horse racing nutter). I remember when it used to be 20-25 quid. i would rather go sick. no scruples.

Is this allowed???? Was stopped in our mc many years ago.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 09 Jun 2016, 09:11

jetblack wrote:
zx135 wrote:going on sick leave when not on sick is dishonest, also if you receive any statutory sick pay and your not actually sick, you are actually receiving the statutory sick pay under false pretences and it could be considered fraud, you are basically defrauding the tax payer

if caught it can also be considered dishonest gross misconduct and you could be dismissed
I'm not disagreeing with what you have posted zx - but just as a matter of interest, how could it be proved to be fraudulent if the doc has given a sick note for stress ?

I don't believe that it can - and its a card that is getting played week in week out. In a sense I don't mind RM picking up the tab (or at least, its not my foremost concern), what I object to is an individual sitting in front of a health professional and lying.

Why would the doc not give the sick note ? - why take that risk, and then the individual in question goes and tops themselves, for example.

I have no idea how it could be proved, I'm not a doctor though I think some of the managers out there think they are, as for sitting in front of doctor and lying and doctors risking denying a line etc, well that's what doctors get paid the big bucks for to make decisions like that

also worth noting it's not just rm picking up the tab, we are, when ssp is paid it's coming out of mine and your pockets.

jetblack · Post by **jetblack** » 09 Jun 2016, 14:20

zx135 wrote:
I have no idea how it could be proved, I'm not a doctor

No neither am I - can I just say at this point that I have absolutely no medical training whatsoever - not even a first aid badge from the Scouts.

zx135 wrote: well that's what doctors get paid the big bucks for to make decisions like that

They do, but if you look at a decision like that (and I'm talking about writing a sick note for stress) there is lots of potential downsides to refusing one, and not much upside. For the doctor that is. So much so that I doubt it happens very much. And I don't particularly blame them - anyone can have their trust breached.
Mental ill health (stress at least) would be virtually impossible to disprove, even for a Dr. I reckon.

Its a flaw in the system - not sure what can be done about it TBH

Shaders · Post by **Shaders** » 09 Jun 2016, 17:13

Unfortunately it's RM cutting the purse strings to the absolute minimum that push some staff into going sick as they know a holiday request will be refused.
later this year I need a Saturday off for a very big family celebration, once in a lifetime event. Now I know I WILL be there for that but im not asking for a day off or swap as it WILL be refused.

Do I feel guilty? Not for one second.

Sorry RM, but you bring a lot of your problems on yourself.

chickenwittle · Post by **chickenwittle** » 09 Jun 2016, 20:29

use it or lose it , royal mail will happily put you on a stage warning if you go 1 day over regardless of what your reasons are. No brainer

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 09 Jun 2016, 20:54

RedBagMan wrote: Like most places (I guess) asking for a Saturday off is a waste of time ... I know many peeps who will start "feeling poorly" on the Friday and then phone in sick on the Saturday a.m. However these peeps are mostly under the age of 40 - and see "wagging off" as a way of life (and they seem to get away with it !). Me (nearly 60) have been umming and aaahing about this whole "setup" all week - being from the generation where "work ethic" actually meant something.

What does the team think ???

Personally I'd make the Decision, "I'm going to be there"! And do the appropriate. Unfortunately Royal Mail (or more accuraetly it's Managers) reep what they sow. IF these sort of "Important Family Events" were dealt with a bit more sympathetically (i.e The DOM making a positive decision to swap your Saturday off) then Posties wouldn't be struggling with these types of dilemma.

Your Family is more Important that Royal Mail....This is just a Job. And do you think those "Youngsters" would give two shites about pulling a sickie and dropping the extra workload on you? Enjoy your Special weekend!