Dismissed (fired) over nothing!

b&wcat · Post by **b&wcat** » 17 May 2016, 11:01

I had an accident during the 2015 Christmas pressure period where I accidentally left the handbrake off the vehicle I was driving and it rolled about 15 foot and to quote my DOM had "a love tap" with a another vehicle. I was dismissed for gross misconduct. I have been through all the appeal stages, including the independent one which is done by a Royal mail manager, hardly independent? I have also contacted ACAS and attempted to take this further with the backing of the union knowing I wasn't a member. I have paid £250 to take this to a tribunal and now the union has told me there is nothing they can do and wished me good luck for the future.

Looking at the fleet at the delivery office, the vans look like they have been entered into a demolition derby and yet nobody has had any comeback on them for any damages. The vehicle I was driving that day was totally undamaged. The car it tapped got a small split in the paint work on the bumper.

I as understand under law, gross misconduct is an intentional act not an accident. I can no longer take this any further as under the Tories on top of the £250 already paid I now have to pay £950 just to get to have a hearing.

Just be warned all you drivers that this is the type of s**t RM can wand will pull in the future if your face doesn't fit so if your honest enough enough to report an accident, don't bother!!!

And for the record I was P/T with 9 years clear conduct.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 17 May 2016, 11:17

Unfortunately negligence can be counted as gross misconduct, it's doesn't need to be wilful

I do feel you have been harshly treated and should have no where near got that level of punishment

what you do need to be aware of is at the employment tribunal if you do decide to take it there, royal mail don't need to prove a thing, all they need to do is show they followed their correct procedures to dismiss you, whether you are guilty or not of gross misconduct doesn't really come into it

Tman · Post by **Tman** » 17 May 2016, 11:17

Sadly for you it's not judged by how much the damage costs to repair, but the potential consequences of what you did.
Leaving the handbrake off (on a hill or slope, if it rolled away?) is a pretty basic and dangerous error though, and it would be hard for the union (apparently our union rather than yours...

) to defend that successfully.

rehabron · Post by **rehabron** » 17 May 2016, 12:42

Hi b&w cat I am trying to picture your situation when you failed to apply the handbrake when parking your vehicle on a slope. I would have thought that the vehicle would have begun to commence a downward rolling motion and this would have been noticeable before you left the vehicle and could have taken steps to avoid a collision. I am also assuming that the keys were not in the ignition with the engine running and the wheels were positioned in accordance with instructions for parking on a downward slope as this has also been omitted from your posting.
I would have expected that as this was your first accident in 9 years and also with an unblemished record in that time a " blameworthy" would have been more appropriate with notification of any further accidents where you are at fault could then lead to your dismissal.
In relation to taking your case to an employment tribunal a solicitor on a no win no fee basis would need to assure you on the success of winning your case and having any doubts would probably advise if your complaint will be successful. Even on winning your case outright there is no guarantee that RM will reinstate you although failing to comply with a ET chairman ruling will mean an increase of your compensatory payment.
You will then have to decide if the money you layout to challenge the decision will be fully justified by winning your case and claiming your court expenses.
If you left the vehicle parked on a downward slope with the keys still in the ignition and engine running then you will find this to be a hard case to defend and the charge of gross misconduct to be totally appropriate.

b&wcat · Post by **b&wcat** » 17 May 2016, 14:28

The keys were out and the incline so slight it took a good 10 seconds or so to start moving. While I was sat in the van I had hauled a large parcel on to my knee after pulling up with my foot still on the brake and scanned it, typed in the customers name then sat there looking in my wing mirror waiting for a gap in the traffic. As for for correct parking procedure I was part time so wtll was not a regular thing, also as I was on rehab my day off for 6 months was Tuesday so again never attended wtll. 'Wash ups' never happened, nobody even knew what they were, even area Union reps! And paper work about all these RM ways to park a vehicle were falsified with out me even seeing them!

RM Management is the most corrupt, you scratch my back, brown nosed scum I have ever come across in my whole working life.

delfranklin1969 · Post by **delfranklin1969** » 17 May 2016, 16:58

That does happen, I once left the hand brake on walked up a garden path on after delivering noticed the van moving as I'd left the hand brake off, lucky for me I managed to stop it before it hit anything!

Awful treatment, shows we have to be on our guard all the time.

Danelectro · Post by **Danelectro** » 17 May 2016, 17:34

Tman wrote:Sadly for you it's not judged by how much the damage costs to repair, but the potential consequences of what you did.
Leaving the handbrake off (on a hill or slope, if it rolled away?) is a pretty basic and dangerous error though, and it would be hard for the union (apparently our union rather than yours... ) to defend that successfully.

Handbrake Incident at my DO last year but with far more damage to vehicle and with the general public at risk outside a busy hospital.Outcome? put on a walk for 2 months and now back driving with 2 year suspended.

2 months previous same employee nearly fell out of van going round corner when door swung open because doesnt 'like' seat belts. Needless to say the employee is a favourite of the Dom and not in the Union.

So the 'rules' are not applied equally and more often than not are used to get rid of 'trouble makers' or solve excess hours, otherwise its amazing what can be put down to mitigating circumstances.Same Company same H&S same Management Training and Documentation but different outcomes.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 17 May 2016, 21:46

Why were you not a member of the union?? This is precisely why you need a union on your side.

As for not putting the handbrake on, what about not leaving it in gear? I always leave it in 1st or reverse depending on which way it's pointing on a hill, even if the handbraked slipped off or failed it wouldn't go anywhere. You've got to think if you're ever behind the van you don't want to get run over either.

With it taking place during christmas pressure I would think fatigue would have played a part, so that should be taken into consideration.

Enigma1 · Post by **Enigma1** » 17 May 2016, 22:14

And another one bites the dust!!! This is surely not grounds for dismissal, Anyone can make a mistake when under pressure it's not as if anyone was injured and with little damage done this is far too harsh. Sounds more like your face didn't fit with the DOM and it was any excuse to get rid.... Far too much of this going on everybody needs to watch their backs!

Newbie001 · Post by **Newbie001** » 18 May 2016, 07:15

Enigma1 wrote:And another one bites the dust!!! This is surely not grounds for dismissal, Anyone can make a mistake when under pressure it's not as if anyone was injured and with little damage done this is far too harsh. Sounds more like your face didn't fit with the DOM and it was any excuse to get rid.... Far too much of this going on everybody needs to watch their backs!

Think the fact that poster mentions rehab has a lot to do with it. Presume they've had a bit of time off. Managers just looking for any reason to get rid.

Post by **mightyowler** » 18 May 2016, 07:40

RM management? Certified bullies.

The countless times I read about how situations are managed within the business is truly shocking tbh. In 9 years of employment with RM I have never endured such a braindead, iliterate bunch of incompetence. 95% of so-called managers within RM would never gain employment in management in any other industry, and the (if your faces fits) is blatantly demonstrated on a daily basis.

Most have zero people skills + the biggest liars since Pinocchio, I wouldn't trust these ...kers to tell me the correct time.

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 19 May 2016, 16:23

If it was looking like you going to be dismissed, you could have gone long term sick and dragged it out so you can save some money up before you get pushed.

These days its all about reducing the head count and saving redundancy payments.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 19 May 2016, 16:35

NWpostie wrote:If it was looking like you going to be dismissed, you could have gone long term sick and dragged it out so you can save some money up before you get pushed.

These days its all about reducing the head count and saving redundancy payments.

Sorry but that won't always work. As long as the dismissal is fair and reasonable, Royal Mail can sack you for a conduct issue even when you are off sick. Although it might delay it a few days as they'd have to check with senior managers, HR and their own legal eagles.

IcanthelpthewayIam · Post by **IcanthelpthewayIam** » 19 May 2016, 16:41

NWpostie wrote:If it was looking like you going to be dismissed, you could have gone long term sick and dragged it out so you can save some money up before you get pushed.

These days its all about reducing the head count and saving redundancy payments.

great advice... not. No wonder people who are off with genuine illness get hassle when there people advocating advice like this. doing things like this just as you say "to drag it out" this is dishonest in my opinion.

NWpostie · Post by **NWpostie** » 19 May 2016, 17:01

zx135 wrote:
NWpostie wrote:If it was looking like you going to be dismissed, you could have gone long term sick and dragged it out so you can save some money up before you get pushed.

These days its all about reducing the head count and saving redundancy payments.

great advice... not. No wonder people who are off with genuine illness get hassle when there people advocating advice like this. doing things like this just as you say "to drag it out" this is dishonest in my opinion.

Don't start a conversation with me otherwise it will escalate.