What is the correct system for allocating annual leave?

[magicw]

Could someone put me straight on this.

What is the actual system for allocating annual leave? Is there a national agreement or is it done at a local level on an office by office arrangement

I ve been at RM just short of 5 years, and experienced at least 3 different systems of allocating annual leave during this time, but never been balloted or petitioned about any " agreed " changes to the system of allocating leave at our office.

Currently we are put in groups of ten, Ranked in seniority and given a pick of Two Weeks according to that seniority Ranking, Each year Pick, Number 1 moves down to Pick No 10 the next year, Number 2 moves up to first Pick and So on.

However every now and again , Mainly when those with the Most Seniority have worked their way back to the bottom/ last pick' the Old " We are changing the way leave is allocated " mummurs start and we end up going to a system were 2 weeks are allocated to you accoriding to seniority, Then after a while of this being the case we change back to another system.

This always results in a restart to accomadate whatever new system leave is allocated by, whereby we return to those who have the most seniority returning to being first pick, Rather than rotating down the table as they should.

I know Seniority is a thorny subject on here, and in General I have no issues with it, But this seems a gross abuse.

With recent rulings in the high court meaning that inevitably the Government is going to change the things about taking your kids out of School during Term Time, and the way the Leave system is jacked about in my office almost always resulting in me getting no summer leave. I would like to be clear on what is actually the right and legal way to allocate leave.

It seems my office has a Smoke and Mirrors system that always results in the same people being top of the Pile. If that's just the way it is, Okay I understand I ve only got 5 years in and don't deserve any time off with my family in the Summer, But I d just like to know what the actual policy is?

My office now wants to move to system, were we are no longer in Groups of Ten , but the whole leave year is opened up to everyone. And geuss what ? So we have a start point for this " New System " Those with the most seniority will GET FIRST PICK. Its took me 5 years to move off the bottom and now I m back down there again

[DB1100]

Ours is mostly done on favourtism,if your face fits and you do overtime you get a good pick,or put another way more weeks are available to pick from,if however,you are like me and do very little O/T and never have time for lapsing you tend to have less weeks to pick from

[Chewster]

In our office we don't get to pick at all. It's just given to you in two random three week blocks. I think those with higher seniority (or perhaps just the favourites) get given better times like the school summer holidays or over Christmas

[spen]

Annual leave allocation should have nothing to do with seniority,,, not allowed

[Pathfinder]

I just got shown a piece of paper and asked to pick weeks that are left (there wasn't many) and got no say whatsoever

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

In our office we don't get to pick at all. It's just given to you in two random three week blocks. I think those with higher seniority (or perhaps just the favourites) get given better times like the school summer holidays or over Christmas

That sounds completely testicles!

If they are going to do allocate leave for you, wouldn't you rather they gave you a single every ~7-11 weeks, depending upon what each OPG's basic leave; long service; POAL?

We alternate between seniority and juniority for the first two weeks picked, then second two picked, followed by a free-for-all for POAL. Long service weeks seem to be added to senior's first call to the office, where they pick 3 weeks. I'm not convinced our office system fully complies with not picking leave based on seniority.

[magicw]

I ve no issue with leave being picked on seniority as long as it rotates round , so at some point you get to be top of the tree. In our office though , whenever there is a danger of this happening, They change the leave system and hence need a new start point , which is inevitably based on Seniority and the same people go back to the top and the same people go back to the bottom, Surely its just a great big fecking Con.

[Chewster]

In our office we don't get to pick at all. It's just given to you in two random three week blocks. I think those with higher seniority (or perhaps just the favourites) get given better times like the school summer holidays or over Christmas

That sounds completely testicles!

If they are going to do allocate leave for you, wouldn't you rather they gave you a single every ~7-11 weeks, depending upon what each OPG's basic leave; long service; POAL?

We alternate between seniority and juniority for the first two weeks picked, then second two picked, followed by a free-for-all for POAL. Long service weeks seem to be added to senior's first call to the office, where they pick 3 weeks. I'm not convinced our office system fully complies with not picking leave based on seniority.

Yes I'd MUCH rather a single week every so often rather than a big block. But we can swap our holidays as long as we find someone willing, so I've managed to swap all of mine to be single weeks here and there. 3 weeks might be alright if you plan a big holiday, but as someone on a part time contract and on mega saving up mode, 3 weeks at 20 hours pay is just not on my agenda! Luckily most people in my office are very willing to swap so it's usually pretty easy to find a specific week(s) that you might require (not that I'm fussed about when my holidays are, just as long as I get them and they aren't lumped together).

[salomon2]

We all get to pick our first 2 weeks, most of them are given. Then everyone puts down the next 2 weeks they want and they are given as close as possible to what you asked for. All remaining leave is now on hold waiting for some more weeks to be opened up in the summer.

[magicw]

We all get to pick our first 2 weeks, most of them are given. Then everyone puts down the next 2 weeks they want and they are given as close as possible to what you asked for. All remaining leave is now on hold waiting for some more weeks to be opened up in the summer.

That's how our system worked last year. With 10 in a group and theoretically 12 weeks of Summer and 2 allowed of at a time, you always got a chance of some holiday between May and September.

Now though they want to scrap the groups and open up the whole leave card, with the Seniors getting to pick their Two Weeks first. so that's about 100 plus people ahead of me, to pick two weeks Holiday, Absolubtley no chance of Anything being left outside of Nov to February or October to January, Surely that aint right.

Everyone should get a chance of at least Two Weeks in the Summer, I have a fear that only Term Time Holidays will be left.

[OnAFlyer]

We all get a sheet and pick two weeks, then pick one week at a time until you've had all your allocation. By the time your second pick comes (third week) it's unlikely there are any school holidays left, and there certainly aren't by the 4th week pick.

Which is strange because some people get all 6 weeks leave during school holidays, yet they get their 3rd/4th/5th/6th week leave sheets at the same time as everyone else.

Our office leave has been so messed up this year that people have only just finished picking their final weeks, and we're 2 months into the leave year!

[rehabron]

http://www.cwu.org/media/5718/the-way-f ... 015doc.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above link and in particular Section 4 describes process for annual leave allocation but can vary from office to office which system is best suited for the operation of that office.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I ve no issue with leave being picked on seniority as long as it rotates round , so at some point you get to be top of the tree. In our office though , whenever there is a danger of this happening, They change the leave system and hence need a new start point , which is inevitably based on Seniority and the same people go back to the top and the same people go back to the bottom, Surely its just a great big fecking Con.

It is - insist that this change MUST be based on Juniority, and the next Seniority if not its patently unfair and although you'll make yourself a target (unfairly) consider putting a grievance in against the manager. Or even the rep.

However, don't do it straight off go and see the rep and the Area Rep first, they might not be aware of the strength of feeling.

[toomuchcoke]

What is the actual system for allocating annual leave? Is there a national agreement or is it done at a local level on an office by office arrangement

Seems to be a office-by-office thing ... Which seems pretty silly because, at least in theory, a delivery office with (e.g.) 100 posties in it should have exactly the same desire to ensure that you don't have all the people who know a given round off at the same time! Now I suppose it doesn't have to be the same system everywhere, so long as whatever system is used is fair and easily understood but of course there are always those who think they should get a good deal - generally either people with lots of seniority, people with kids or (worst of all) people with lots of seniority and kids who seem to think this should give them first choice of school holiday weeks.

I've worked in 2 different offices and they've had completely different systems! The system used in my current office is as follows :-

1. Office is divided up into groups - each consisting of the 5 people in a group covered by a day off cover floater, add in the day off cover floater, add in the leave reserve for that group, and add in 1 or 2 people from the very bottom of the food chain seniority-wise.
2. Put the group in a random order by drawing names out of a hat, this also fixes the order that leave will be picked in the first year. It was done randomly too, with witnesses!
3. When the sheet comes to you for the first time, pick the 2 weeks of leave you most want from what's available and pass the sheet onto the next person.
4. When the sheet comes back to you, pick the next 2 weeks of leave. Anyone with >4 weeks of leave gets a 3rd pick at the weeks no-one else wanted.
5. When all the leave has been allocated, move everyone down (or is it up?) the list 3 places. So the person who picked 1st this year, picks 4th next year, 2nd picks 5th etc. Thus ultimately everyone gets to pick 1st.

Moving down the list by more than 1 place also means that you don't speed 3 years near the top of the list, and then 3 years at the bottom of the list. If you're at the top this year, you'll be in the middle next year and then last the year after that and so on and so forth.

[superports]

"The selection process should be complete by the end of the preceding October each year"

We're still signing for this years leave! I find this completely unacceptable, but despite complaints, manager just shrugs and nothing is ever done.