Peed off new starter, advice appreciated!

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 08:27

Hello ladies and gents, I've just joined rm on a 20hr contract. Has taken 5 weeks to feel pissed off and exploited. Would appreciate any advice on the issues I've encountered....

Apologies if this post replicates another or is unsuitable for the union room.

My grievances could be summarised as the following:

1) no induction or explanation of the paper work needed to record overtime at other offices.

2) the resulting non payment of wages, currently 20hrs (after only 4 weeks)

3) this is the one I'd particularly appreciate some advice on - being asked to use own transport to other offices and being lead to believe that my hours start and finish at that office, not my contracted office. I now believe this isn't in accordance with my contract, meaning I've done something like 30hrs of unpaid travel.

I would have gone to the union rep at my office, but unfortunately he's off sick.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

crazyshrew · Post by **crazyshrew** » 04 May 2016, 09:24

Point number 1 is pretty standard unfortunately sadly resulting in number 2.
In fact nonpayment of OT, even when it is recorded correctly, seems to be a common theme throughout RM. Managers worry more about keeping to their budgets rather than the law.
Doesn't make it right - have you got a record of all the OT you've done? start kicking up a stink and find your REP to help get these hours paid.

Point number 3 needs a lot of correction. If you are asked to work at other offices -

*You start AND finish at your home office at your usual start and finish times. The travel time is taken out of your usual working day
Assuming your usual hours are 9-2 or similar - 9 am at your office, 20-30mins travel to the other office, just 4ish hrs work there finishing up around 1330 to be back at your home office to finish at 1400
If they insist you do your full hours at the other office the time it would take to travel from your home office (and back again) is OT
*It is RM's responsibility to sort the travel out, either give you a van to drive yourself in or have someone drive you
I have heard cases where they have also had to pay taxi or bus fares to get posties back.
*IF you are prepared to use your own car, ensure you have business insurance as cover for commuting usually only covers you to "your usual place of work"
Also, make sure you claim the mileage from office A to office B, it's about 45p per mile

Creditshampoo · Post by **Creditshampoo** » 04 May 2016, 10:56

Refuse to work at another office without them providing transport.
Explain if you had an accident you would not be covered as insurance only covers travel to your usual place of work

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 13:47

Thanks a lot, really clarified some things I didn't know for sure - the contract I received is seriously lacking in detail.

Is the payment of time travelled (start and finish at own office) common to ALL contracts? Just want to be certain that this is the case so I can be %100 confident in claiming that I'm owed payment for these hours and alerting colleagues in the same position.

At the risk of ranting on...the thing that leaves a bitter taste is that a number of managers at my own and other offices have, it seems, been deliberately misleading and violated the conditions of my contract. Not making me aware of the full information would be one thing, but lying when asked directly is another. I've been told a number of blatant misstruths from managers, including simply; no we don't pay for any time you spend travelling to another office, to the more elaborate; the 45p a mile rate is an 'augmented' rm rate to compensate for fuel, car maintenance and wages. It's systematic, accross offices (that I've visited) and to other similarly inexperienced colleagues. Taking advantage of keen new starters who don't feel sure enough to raise objections is bang out of line. I'd imagine many others are receiving similar treatment!

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 04 May 2016, 13:58

Most contracts are the same and are changed by agreements with the Union.

However, very few posties have been employed on contracts where they were initially employed to work in different offices rather than a single nominated parent office. To avoid confusion everyone's contracts mentions working in nearby offices this is not the same as being specifically recruited to be a Geographical reserve.

If you have one of these contracts then the managers may be correct, however, these contracts are extremely rare.

If yours is a normal contract then yes you start at your home unit and finish at it as well, all within duty time. Or you ARE paid overtime for the travel. You are also paid mileage or reimbursed fares if they don't transport you in an official vehicle. However, you can only use your car if you have the right insurance (Social, Domestic and Commuting cover is not enough), and you definitely can't use it when you are delivering as Royal Mail have removed their bond from most offices.

So check your contract and recruitment paperwork to make sure you are employed to work from a nominated office, and then start kicking ass if you are.

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 14:04

On the non payment of OT, can anyone explain how you're expected to get the sheet signed off by manager at the office you're sent to, who knocks off at 1? It's not as if a new starter on an unfamiliar round can give an indication of when they're going to be back at the office. Thus, hours aren't signed off, moved to another office next day....don't get payed. Seems like a flawed system to me.

Luckily I am insured for the business travel.

Only other point was that, for the majority of time since joining, I've been loaned to another office (averaging 270 miles a week). Im assuming this doesn't change what I'm entitled to?

Thanks again. I fully intend to take this to management and encourage others at my office to do the same. I've never come across a clearer case of 'us vs them'. Not what I expected at rm! Live and learn I guess...

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 14:09

Thanks for that trueblue. I double checked contract; 'your initial place of work will be ... delivery office' let the ass kicking commence;) Can't imagine I'll get much out of them though.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 04 May 2016, 14:42

Maverick89 wrote:On the non payment of OT, can anyone explain how you're expected to get the sheet signed off by manager at the office you're sent to, who knocks off at 1? It's not as if a new starter on an unfamiliar round can give an indication of when they're going to be back at the office. Thus, hours aren't signed off, moved to another office next day....don't get payed. Seems like a flawed system to me.

As far as I know your manager can input the overtime on their behalf, then through the PSP system the other office approve it and it comes from their budget.

If you can't get anywhere with your manager, then put in a grievance against each manager who is withholding payment. Although I would mention the possibility of this to your manager first, making sure they know its not personal.

Ultimately you can go to small claims court for illegal withholding of wages.

Maverick89 wrote:Luckily I am insured for the business travel.

Maverick89 wrote:Only other point was that, for the majority of time since joining, I've been loaned to another office (averaging 270 miles a week). Im assuming this doesn't change what I'm entitled to?

Not in the slightest. Although it explains why the didn't tell you. 270 miles x 45p

Maverick89 wrote:Thanks again. I fully intend to take this to management and encourage others at my office to do the same. I've never come across a clearer case of 'us vs them'. Not what I expected at rm! Live and learn I guess...

They do say experience is a great teacher.

yellowbelly · Post by **yellowbelly** » 04 May 2016, 16:18

Maverick,

I've found it handy to take a photo of timesheets with cameraphone when I've worked at other offices.

Also if you had to travel to another office for your Royal Mail Induction did you claim for that journey - a few of the
new starters who joined at same time as me didn't bother but I did - again it was 45p per mile - it's your
money.....

YB

edo4442 · Post by **edo4442** » 04 May 2016, 18:04

And dont forget, you are entitled to take a paid break, which no manager will tell you about. If you work more than 5 hours a day, its 30 mins. If, on the occasion you happen to not take your break, then that also comes off your finish time, as your breaks are paid. Therefore if you are due to finish at 2 pm but dont take a break then the finish time is back at your office for 1.30 pm, not forgetting you will have to leave the other office in plenty of time, on average 20-30 mins, so you would be looking to leave the other office by 1pm.

I do not recommend that you give up your break, its a hard physical job, and your break is there to help protect your health and safety. I would recommend that you demand to take your full break every day, even if it means taking it at the other office you are going to, just before your delivery commences.

RM have a duty of care to get you back to your office for your finishing time, there is no iffs, or butts about it.

Work out your finish time, and get the other office to book you a taxi to ensure that there is no f***ing about when you have finished on the duty, and remember to tell them that you are working to your time as soon as you step foot into the other office, and record it on your phone, so there is no arguments later.

pag1967 · Post by **pag1967** » 04 May 2016, 18:21

Does the start time/travel time at your office apply if you are a sector spare also, I was told I have to do my full 5 hours at the office they have told me to go too. I am never based at my office, I am always loaned out. Today spent 45 mins stuck in traffic, when it only takes me 10 minutes to my office.

rubberbond · Post by **rubberbond** » 04 May 2016, 18:34

Maverick89 wrote:Thanks for that trueblue. I double checked contract; 'your initial place of work will be ... delivery office' let the ass kicking commence;) Can't imagine I'll get much out of them though.

I think you will find the killer phrase "any other duties commensurate with the position",(inserted at the bottom. Of the document usually), or words to that effect. Which means,they can mess you around,should they choose to do so. Doesn't excuse the behaviour they have demonstrated to you so far though.
Furthermore,my understanding was,that, as a new starter,once you have been "trained",you were supposed to stay on the same duty for 6 weeks, to assist you with settling in etc. That has happened in even the worst offices I have worked in and boy have I worked in some horrible places.

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 23:18

Good advice all round. Now just need to work out the best way to take it forward. I'm minded to rack up the miles, whilst gently querying with managers what my contract entitles me to re time spent travelling. If the same pattern of bull***t I've encountered so far continues, I reckon I've got a pretty strong case.

Yb, I haven't had an induction...hence not having much of a clue what the deal is. Good suggestion on the photo evidence, I'll be doing that for sure.

Maverick89 · Post by **Maverick89** » 04 May 2016, 23:23

Rubberbond, can't find that phrase in my contract. Do you think it's inclusion would mean the employee wouldn't have travel time included in working hours? Which other terms of the contract might be affected?

Interesting point on the training and the initial 6 weeks on a duty, haven't seen any evidence of that at my office.

Nondescript · Post by **Nondescript** » 05 May 2016, 01:07

You need to speak to your rep ASAP. AS TBT has stated, your manager can submit the overtime you are owed - I've had my manager do it in the past when I've been shipped out to other offices.

ALso, don't use your own transport to get to these other offices - turn up at the 'home' office stated in your contract at your proper start time (no earlier), and insist that the manager calls you a taxi to get to the other DO.

Don't forget to take your break either. When you get to the other office, inform the manager that you either wish to finish back at your 'home' office for your contracted finish time, in which case you'll need to finish a bit early in order to allow for the taxi journey back, or inform him that you are willing to work overtime. In either case, get a contact number off him in case he legs it before you get back from the delivery, then you'll be able to phone him if there are any problems, or to tell how much overtime he owes you, and also to call you a taxi to get you back to your own office.

Once you start doing the above steps, you'll probably find that your manager isn't quite so keen to send you out to other offices and will pick on someone else. The picking on someone else bit sucks obviously, but such is the nature of the scumbags who supervise us.

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