Full time contract - never gonna happen?

Postman Matt · Post by **Postman Matt** » 16 Mar 2016, 15:56

Ok, so I know I'm still very new - I've only been at my DO since Monday, and am agency (Manpower), of which I'm told it's only a 12 week placement, but if I'm required after that I will go onto the regular rate of pay (first 12 weeks are £8 an hour - not good! But then I'm told if I'm kept on it's £13 an hour - much more do able)

My question is, I know it's somewhat of a lottery to go agency to perm, but are full time (i.e., 36hrs+ a week) contracts gone now? If not, is there reasonable chance I might get one after 3/6/12 months, or is there zero chance? I'm being told by the longer serving postie's there that at best I might get a 25hr contract, although I would still be required to do 40/48hrs a week, but that at any time I could be reverted to contract and only be "required", and thus paid, for 25hrs only.

That to me is a big gamble - putting in the initial 12 weeks at near minimum wage, then potentially a year only to find I'm not given a perm contract, and if I do only getting a part time one. Risky, and I generally require something a bit more concrete than that!

ikybear · Post by **ikybear** » 16 Mar 2016, 16:21

£13 an hour! Since when??

gary1975 · Post by **gary1975** » 16 Mar 2016, 16:35

There's People with 10yrs plus service on only 27.5 contrats with zero hope of ever getting full time

Postman Matt · Post by **Postman Matt** » 16 Mar 2016, 16:38

Just going on what it said on the job listing here http://www.manpower.co.uk/job/67042/pos ... ham-cross/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What was nice, was not long after I posted this, I got a call from my recruiter at Manpower saying she'd been in a meeting today with my DOM and two of the assist managers there, who apparently said they really like me, and say I'm doing really good work. Which is always nice to hear. She also said they is every chance of a perm contract being offered to the right candidate, and advised me to keep up the good work in the hope of getting it. I asked her if she knew what the hours requirements would be (25hrs or 40/48) and she said she didn't know as she didn't ask that particular question, but that she will, and get back to me about it.

So it could be promising..!

Jefferson Starfish · Post by **Jefferson Starfish** » 16 Mar 2016, 16:55

ikybear wrote:£13 an hour! Since when??

Includes Outer London Weighting perhaps?

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 16 Mar 2016, 17:05

RM full time is 39 hours. The chances of getting that are very slim especially as a casual/agency.

When, and I hope it is a "when", you come onto RMs own books then full-time contracts are usually offered to the most senior part-timer and then they work down the list.

There is always overtime in Royal Mail, sometimes even at other offices, but as you say its hard to plan when your basic hours at 20 - 30 hours.

I also think with the outlook over the next 5 years in RM, full-time (39 hours) will be an endangered species.

UnhappyGremlin · Post by **UnhappyGremlin** » 16 Mar 2016, 17:13

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:I also think with the outlook over the next 5 years in RM, full-time (39 hours) will be an endangered species.

I think they will extinct.

Very few will now be given out.

So, I wouldn't believe any manager telling me it's a possibility.

Chewster · Post by **Chewster** » 16 Mar 2016, 17:50

Full time contracts seem to be like hen's teeth. Most of us in my office are on part time contracts, mostly 20 hours. A few on less (they were initially just collections) and a few on 25. There are full time contracts being made available in our office, but as has been said already here, they go by seniority order, and it's a loooonnngggg list. I personally am not TOO worried at the moment as I'm getting a decent enough amount of hours, but I do worry for a year or so down the line when I'll be looking at mortgages...can't help but feel someone on a part time contract isn't very attractive to a bank for that...

grumpyme · Post by **grumpyme** » 16 Mar 2016, 18:01

In our office when anyone has left ( part-timers ), vacancy is filled quite quickly, but the full-time positions ( there are 2 at the moment ) have not been filled, posties expected to absorb these walks.

I'm sure someone will correct me, but a few years ago wasn't RM looking at how Holland postal service worked, they are all on part-time no full-time postal workers.

Could this be what RM want ?

ptopgusedandabused · Post by **ptopgusedandabused** » 16 Mar 2016, 18:08

An FT contract might never materialise. The problem with the business is it is now purely profit focused. That means PT's will stay on their contract and new hires are probably only ever going to see a PT contract because RM only have to pay you your contract rate when you're on holiday and have the option to cut OT at their pleasure (expect to work just as hard as you do when you come in early). Sucks but that is the bigger picture until something gets done about it to stop RM exploiting us PT's.

Postman Matt · Post by **Postman Matt** » 16 Mar 2016, 18:33

But surely it costs them more money in the long run, as if they're paying say 25hr week contract, but you do 40hrs like the long-timers, they are paying you 25hrs @ standard PLUS 15hrs at overtime, rather than just 39hrs @ normal?

Post by **bustedflush** » 16 Mar 2016, 18:44

2 main reasons not:

1. There is probably a queue in front of you for any (rare) FT's that come up.

2. It's convenient under the heading 'flexibility' for RM or the DIM to have people PT because the OT rate doesn't go up until you pass 39 hrs. (even then it's only marginally more) and they are facilitating the old scam of getting you at least 2-3% 'cheaper' than other employees. This is because (assuming you are on the rota week system and do say 2.5 hours OT per week) you will have 8 or 9 rota weeks plus 4 weeks' leave = 13x 2.5 = 32.5 hours - you WON'T be paid this OT when on those 13 weeks off.

The exception is SA OT but most reserves/PT's tend to get given ad-hoc OT.

For you that is over 1 weeks' wages (about 2.5%) you earn less than someone doing the same hours but contracted to do them. Obviously adjust my figures accordingly for your own basic contract compared to the hours you actually do on average. In fact the 2.5% is probably on the very low side.

Welcome to the 2-tier workforce!!!

Postman Matt · Post by **Postman Matt** » 16 Mar 2016, 19:28

Thanks for the replies, it's good to get an inside, and experienced, view on it.

Next question is, if I was to get a PT contract, say 25hrs, is there much in the way of likely hood that the hours I'd be required to work (for example, so I generally work 40hrs every week for months and months, possibly years) suddenly being cut down to the "core" 25hrs, leaving me massively out of pocket. THIS is the gamble that worries me. I like to know exactly what my base monthly salary will be, and I like that figure to one that I now I can pay my bills and mortgage on...

Post by **bustedflush** » 16 Mar 2016, 20:36

Postman Matt wrote:Thanks for the replies, it's good to get an inside, and experienced, view on it.

Next question is, if I was to get a PT contract, say 25hrs, is there much in the way of likely hood that the hours I'd be required to work (for example, so I generally work 40hrs every week for months and months, possibly years) suddenly being cut down to the "core" 25hrs, leaving me massively out of pocket. THIS is the gamble that worries me. I like to know exactly what my base monthly salary will be, and I like that figure to one that I now I can pay my bills and mortgage on...

Well, if the union does its job in your DO, if you are doing FT hours for say 6 months and are on a 25hr.PT contract, by rights under the WF Agreement you should be substantiated to 39 hrs. However, in practice this seldom happens. People have been saying on here they've been doing FT hours for years in some cases on PT contracts. In Corby recently they took industrial action in order to get over 10 PT staff made FT because they were being ripped-off like this.

If it's just money you're concerned about, I would suggest it's unlikely you'd get hours/OT reduced as it seems yours is yet another office that runs on OT. If you did FT hours for say 2 years then they reduced you to basic 25 because you still had a PT contract for the 25, I'd be beating a door to an appeal/grievance for them failing to substantiate those hours in accordance with the WFA.

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 16 Mar 2016, 20:37

Not wanting to be too blunt about it but as agency staff, you're the most expendable and expensive member of staff. The DOM will be looking to cut you loose asap.

You need to get on a temporary PT contract with RM at the earliest opportunity. Onlly then can you start to think about gaining more hours.

Btw, I'm happy to be corrected, but as agency your time with them won't count towards seniority when you switch over to RM, which is key to getting more hours in a repick so even more reason to switch.