Is it possible to have 20-hour contracts (or similar) set over 3 days instead of 5?

christiani · Post by **christiani** » 02 Feb 2016, 15:15

Hey everyone,

Now that I have been working for Royal Mail for a year, I have come to a stage where I am increasingly feeling aggrieved about my contract. It has been set over 5 days, I assume, to tempt me in to working full-time hours. While this seems fine on the surface, I think it's outrageous that I'm only paid 20 hours during my annual leave, and only have 20 hours worth of pension contributions given to me by RM etc etc. While I've worked full-time hours every week since I joined, I don't think it's fair that I'm unable to have any leeway when it comes to having more than 1 day off per week. In my opinion, if I'm only going to be given a 20-hour contract (indefinitely, from what my manager has said), RM should only be allowed to set those hours over 3 days, so that I then have the opportunity to work more days, or decide to take the rest of the week off.

It also has a massive affect on my ability to buy a property. I'm interested in buying a place at the moment, but my bank will only take into account the 20-hour contract, even though I work between 32 and 40 hours per week!

My question is, do I have any power in having the 20 hours changed to a 3-day agreement (Two 7-hour days and a 6-hour day for example) or am I going to have to live with it or apply for a new job?

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 02 Feb 2016, 16:08

First thing...Don't panic over your pension contributions. If you check your payslips..... The more hours you work, The more pension you pay. So at least that's a bit of good news for you!

I know a lot of 20 hour contracts are spread over 5 days...4 Hours a day... I agree it sucks.

Basically they normally say, The duty will be prepped and bagged up and you just do the Delivery (incorporating a 20 min Meal relief which they conveniently forget

). If you're covering Full Time Duties you could try and negotiate for 3 x 8 Hour days (which some colleagues have managed to do... obviously with 4 hours increase in duty) however as you suggest your DOM probably likes the idea of you wanting more hours/pay and actually working over every day. Don't think he's liable to do anything unless he gains from it.

I've had that speech saying, "That's your contract you're not likely to get anymore hours...Take it or leave it"! It's really great for Your Morale, especially when you see others hoovering up 15-20 hours overtime a week!

That's why there's no room for increasing your contract. Thank your Greedy Colleagues.

Personally I'd stick rigidly to your contracted hours, for now, and look for alternative employment. Royal Mail don't give a shite about your long term financial situation. In the short term I'd also look for another part time job. I take it you should be starting later, try a cleaning job early mornings and then off for Delivery. I've done it in the past and the look on the DOMs face when he asks if you can come in early because their short staffed....and you say, "Sorry can't do it I've got something else to do" was priceless. Good Luck!

zzzidane · Post by **zzzidane** » 02 Feb 2016, 16:13

I'm in the same boat except i have a 25 hour contract. Bin with royal mail 3 years & have worked between 39 & 60 hours every single week since i started. Even hav 2 come in when im on holiday/leave (unless ive gone abroad!) for a couple of days to 'top up' my wages. Cant get a mortgage because of this contract. Hav requested a review of my hours, as per the agenda for growth agreement, which states your contract should be reviewed & contract hours increased, based on the average number of hours you actually work, numerous times, but just get fobbed off by management & the union. Think its an absolute disgrace the royal mail take advantage like this. Can u imagine the upper management & directors etc having part time contracts but working full time hours and then some, week in week out???? Totally takes the pi$$

christiani · Post by **christiani** » 02 Feb 2016, 16:32

Thanks for your response guys, and I'm glad I'm not alone in this situation. It's only a short-term job for me (applying for all graduate jobs I can lay my hands on), but it doesn't make it any less frustrating being shafted to the tune of £150-200 per week I have off etc! The managers would refuse to work if their contracts suddenly changed to this setup!

I feel like working Mon-Wed from now on, then saying to the manager that I've "done my 20 hours this week, see you next Monday", but I guess all that would achieve is putting my job at risk, more than make them realise how much they're abusing us all, from what you've both said.

What a 'Debbie Downer" of a forum thread, sorry! haha Nice, privatisation, isn't it? *ahem*

Dorset Plodder · Post by **Dorset Plodder** » 02 Feb 2016, 17:01

Sorry there's no Magic Bullet Christiani. You're certainly not alone and if you check old posts you'll see this problem crops up regularly. Be grateful you're not in this for the long haul. For at least the last 8 years of so Royal Mail have realised that they can get more work out of Part Timers by simply limiting their contracts. They know we're all "Work Hungry" because we need to pay our bills. Therefore a Part Timer is always going to need to pick up the slack and do extra hours.

In fact DOMs don't want you to work your contracted hours as that won't give them any Reserve if something goes tits up. Best way you can stick two fingers up to them is just work those contracted hour (don't forget to take your Meal Relief) and get out as fast as you can Good Luck

datasaint · Post by **datasaint** » 02 Feb 2016, 20:22

Dictating to your DOM how many days you want to work will be a very short conversation, unless you do it under the basis of "family friendly hours", woman (who recently had a kid) in our place works 16 hours a week, 2x8 hour days 9am-5pm. You're lucky though you have the availability of OT to make up your hours really. Would you rather you were coming in to work for only 4 hours a day and nothing more?

Yes full timers have it better, but then they joined when the business was different.

Your best bet is either find another job with FT hours, or try and transfer to another location/part of Royal Mail that is offering FT employment (unlikely to be in delivery).

crazyshrew · Post by **crazyshrew** » 03 Feb 2016, 14:37

we have 23.5 hr contracts who work as day off covers for 3 days, longer and shorter days mean it works out to be 23hr 45 mins for 2 weeks and 23hr 15 min for two weeks.
2 fixed days off and a rotating day so they all still get 1in4 Saturdays (works out to be a 5 day weekend). It's great as there's usually plenty of opportunity for them to come in and work their days off

indurain · Post by **indurain** » 04 Feb 2016, 15:50

christiani, I think the vast majority of new employees including myself have been/are in the same boat. probably not a lot you can do about it unless you try and get transferred to another round/office where there might be a different job going like someone else said. worth mentioning if you don't mind changing office.
it's true the only chance you might have of demanding what hours you work is if you're a mother and you say you can only work certain days. royal mail might give you whatever hours you like in this case, no matter if it impacts on the rest of your colleagues who might have just as important reasons to want to only work certain hours.

Post by **bustedflush** » 04 Feb 2016, 19:36

christiani wrote:Thanks for your response guys, and I'm glad I'm not alone in this situation. It's only a short-term job for me (applying for all graduate jobs I can lay my hands on), but it doesn't make it any less frustrating being shafted to the tune of £150-200 per week I have off etc! The managers would refuse to work if their contracts suddenly changed to this setup!

I feel like working Mon-Wed from now on, then saying to the manager that I've "done my 20 hours this week, see you next Monday", but I guess all that would achieve is putting my job at risk, more than make them realise how much they're abusing us all, from what you've both said.

What a 'Debbie Downer" of a forum thread, sorry! haha Nice, privatisation, isn't it? *ahem*

There is a way out of this (possibly). RM can do 'job sharing' so 2 x 20-hour people can fill a FT post. Say do 1 week on 1 off OR alternate days. Unusual but can be arranged; I asked out of curiosity rather than desire. The obvious problem with this is it's ALL about the walking and covering delivery so 2 people solely employed to walk 4 hours daily can't do it. It has to be said though that with RM's desire to have lots of PT'ers this could become common in future.

When 6-8 hour deliveries start though, we'll ALL be begging to job-share before we keel over....

christiani · Post by **christiani** » 04 Feb 2016, 20:04

That's an interesting point mate. Might be worth following up. It's just annoying that I've been covering an 8-hour duty since I started (Jan 2015), so they should be able to do it, in an ideal world! Maybe I'm being too hopeful, though!

There are also other 20-hour contract guys who have their hora spread over 3 days, which makes me even more angry about my contract situation!

paul1231 · Post by **paul1231** » 05 Feb 2016, 00:13

christiani wrote:That's an interesting point mate. Might be worth following up. It's just annoying that I've been covering an 8-hour duty since I started (Jan 2015), so they should be able to do it, in an ideal world! Maybe I'm being too hopeful, though!

There are also other 20-hour contract guys who have their hora spread over 3 days, which makes me even more angry about my contract situation!

Ive been doing full time now for over a year on a 24hour contract and I've even singed for a full time delivery recently and got it cause no one else wanted it given the area and size of the round and yet still there will be no chance of getting an hour increase. Just got to put up with it i guess sadly

Post by **bustedflush** » 05 Feb 2016, 01:14

paul1231 wrote:
christiani wrote:That's an interesting point mate. Might be worth following up. It's just annoying that I've been covering an 8-hour duty since I started (Jan 2015), so they should be able to do it, in an ideal world! Maybe I'm being too hopeful, though!

There are also other 20-hour contract guys who have their hora spread over 3 days, which makes me even more angry about my contract situation!
Ive been doing full time now for over a year on a 24hour contract and I've even singed for a full time delivery recently and got it cause no one else wanted it given the area and size of the round and yet still there will be no chance of getting an hour increase. Just got to put up with it i guess sadly

That's bollocks. If you've been allocated a FT delivery then you need contracted FT hours. You cant have a two-tier workforce, one doing the job for 39 hrs. all the way, and the other (you) being robbed of 15 hrs. every week you're on holiday, or if you do a rota week system even worse. SEE THE REP!

If you aren't on rota week you're circa £800 less before tax a year like that, if you are then about £2k a year worse-off before tax.

mattyda1 · Post by **mattyda1** » 14 Feb 2016, 18:25

It's ridiculous how Royal Mail seem to think that this approach to staffing delivery offices is the way forward, they could easily increase the number of full time contracts just by changing the way each office is run, just the same way they are changing the offices to employ more part time contracts which is having a totally demoralising affect on the staff.
After a 3 year fight myself and a colleague have recently been given a full time contract having been with RM for 9 years, so it isn't unheard of.
The bad news is I think RM has got some significant changes still in the pipeline which is why they are sticking with this current attitude so unfortunately I think awarding FT contracts is a thing of the past.

Post by **postiewhite** » 17 Feb 2016, 19:33

Some offices do not benefit from a 20 hr contract over 5 days. The latest start in our office for any member of staff is 8.15am. To spread them hours over 5 days they would need to start at 10.30am to finish at 2.30pm and considering our posties leave the office at 9.30am its impossible for that to work so we have a structure in our office, reserves on a 25hr contract work 4 days and anything over that its 5 days, less than 25hrs its over 3 days. RM can basically get you in over 5 days on 20hrs but unless you want the overtime and can make it worthwhile to do maybe a couple of extra hours per day I dont see the benefits.

nickbsmooth · Post by **nickbsmooth** » 19 Feb 2016, 23:52

With most walks being 4hrs 15mins ,I cannot see how 20hrs is possible over 5days.
We have some staff on 2/3day weeks .