Looking for best course of action

[Mezza]

In my DO we have 3 indoor staff:
DOM Support
Callers
RLE / Callers assist.

We have a new DOM - still extremely inexperienced.

The issue we have as indoor staff is this - Whenever the DOM is unable to get walks covered he sends the DOM Support and RLE/ Callers assist out on delivery.
The duties mentioned are usually purely office based and there is never a day when we don't work our full hours - you will never see us sitting around with nothing to do. Our duties are filled to the brim with work and responsibilities on a daily basis.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea here - none of us have an issue with working our full hours or being sent out on delivery when needs justify it.
But the point here is the justification.

When we are being sent out on delivery and other delivery staff are finishing as early as 11.30 today and being allowed to go home, then that is our issue.

Mentioning utilising all paid working hours or resourcing to workload just falls on deaf ears.

Explaining to our DOM that as the RLE duty i can easily prove that based on figures held in the RLE, i know the average amount of time made by every delivery duty in my DO is just over 1 hour per week.
Means the indoor staff work a full week every year more than delivery staff for the same wage.
Mentioning that only the indoor staff are made to take their meal relief which means the above mentioned comment about making an hour a week can easily become closer to 6 hours a week is also ignored by the DOM.

So what is the best course of action to address this issue of being sent out on delivery often after other delivery staff have gone home for the day?

We are already considering a B&H complaint due to an unfair woorkload - the issue here being that if we go out on delivery we then have to catch up with the work we haven't done that day. Why are we given exta work when regualr delivery staff are not even working to their time?

Or, would a grievance or disagreement be a better course to take - or as well as?

Our Union rep is nothing short of useless - holds the position for his own benefit and very little else - he actually thinks the indoor staff don't do enough as it is !!

All suggestions gratefully considered, but please leave out comments like just do your hours and let the DOM worry if your regular work piles up. We want to address the issue once and for all - this has been going on since revision and a previous DOM some 2 years now.
Post revision we were sent out on a 1.5 hr delivery every day, until it was realised that our work was piling up to ridiculous levels. That delivery was then taken off us and we took on other work to ensure our duties were full.

I should also add that we have never seen our 318's despite asking on numerous occassions. I know they aren't called 318's anymore, but you know what i mean. Our previous and current DOM just refuse to let us have copies and state " as directed" whenever we ask.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

yet another thread on this...

Every duty has a 318, it's still called a 318, and every 318 has the line as directed so even having sight of it still allows your dom to send you out on delivery.

You are not being asked to work over your hours as such a grievance and even a disagreement would be likely to fail, your unhappy as your only being asked to work to your time, a grievance for that is unlikely to go anywhere, the union is not likely to back you because it appears you are unhappy other staff are finishing before you not because you are having to work over your time. What ever way you try to put it each time your gripe is still you don't think you should have to go out and deliver and work to time when others can finish early,

you are not paid to manage workloads your manager is. You don't want to hear it but that is the way it. Either ask to go back on delivery or become a manager and change things

[Mezza]

I fully understand the point you make, but i am not unhappy about working to my time.

I am unhappy because i'm being sent out on delivery and the consequence is not then being able to complete my own duty. I then have to play catch up on my own duty for the rest of the time i am not sent out. All this while regular delivery staff are sat at home.
Redirections for the entire office not sorted and trayed up, left sitting there until i have the time to do it.
Missorts left sitting in the ips frames until i have the time to sort them and tray them.
All the office kill offs left piled up and falling all over the floor because i haven't the time to get to them.
Not collected kill off items left piling up on my desk because i haven't had time to do them.
739 items not booked in as i haven't been able to assist the callers office.

Today is my day off - my cover drives and is almost certain to be sent out to do some sort of delivery (often paid as OT) so all those above things will have built up over 2 days now. If i'm sent out tomorrow then it's unlikely they will get done before next week.

I am not paid to manage workloads, but my DOM clearly doesn't know how to.

I clearly said that we have never had an issue with working to our time. When not sent out on delivery i still work to my finish time every day and accept that as my duty.

I do not accept the fact that anyone on a delivery duty is allowed to go home before their finish time and i am asked to go out and do a delivery when i have other work i should be doing.
Resource to workload and utilise all paid working hours were things we agreed to.

Why would anyone even think about putting in a grievance or disagreement for being asked to work over their time? You get to your finish time and go home if you don't want to do OT?

Asking to go back on delivery would be pointless - there is nobody that would want my RLE duty so i would end up doing it (as directed) and then expected to go out and do any delivery.

The B&H route on an unfair workload seems to be the only choice then.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I fully understand the point you make, but i am not unhappy about working to my time.

I am unhappy because i'm being sent out on delivery and the consequence is not then being able to complete my own duty. I then have to play catch up on my own duty for the rest of the time i am not sent out. All this while regular delivery staff are sat at home.
Redirections for the entire office not sorted and trayed up, left sitting there until i have the time to do it.
Missorts left sitting in the ips frames until i have the time to sort them and tray them.
All the office kill offs left piled up and falling all over the floor because i haven't the time to get to them.
Not collected kill off items left piling up on my desk because i haven't had time to do them.
739 items not booked in as i haven't been able to assist the callers office.

Today is my day off - my cover drives and is almost certain to be sent out to do some sort of delivery (often paid as OT) so all those above things will have built up over 2 days now. If i'm sent out tomorrow then it's unlikely they will get done before next week.

I am not paid to manage workloads, but my DOM clearly doesn't know how to.

I clearly said that we have never had an issue with working to our time. When not sent out on delivery i still work to my finish time every day and accept that as my duty.

I do not accept the fact that anyone on a delivery duty is allowed to go home before their finish time and i am asked to go out and do a delivery when i have other work i should be doing.
Resource to workload and utilise all paid working hours were things we agreed to.

Why would anyone even think about putting in a grievance or disagreement for being asked to work over their time? You get to your finish time and go home if you don't want to do OT?

Asking to go back on delivery would be pointless - there is nobody that would want my RLE duty so i would end up doing it (as directed) and then expected to go out and do any delivery.

The B&H route on an unfair workload seems to be the only choice then.

There is no agreement that says utilise all paid hours, there is an agreement which states that as an aspiration but it's not an actual agreement to do it

The b&h route is likely to fail as you are only being asked to do work that you are employed to do within your hours, you are not being pressurised to complete more than you can cope with, in fact the office manager does not seem bothered about work carrying over to the next day or longer, if he was then it would be a different story but he isn't from what you have said, so by all means go down that route,

[fishtank]

Can't get my head around the having to catch up with all your other work bit Mezza.
If you're "catching up" inside your contracted hours then you're not really catching up, you're just working., If you can't catch up leave it till tomorrow.

[Mezza]

Work i have been unable to complete due to being out on delivery will eventually be absorbed in my workload as i get through the week.
However, where i may have had a spare ten minutes to catch up on other things, such as printing delivery sheets, bagging up confidential waste from the RLE that has expired it's retention period etc things like that are then put back.
It's human nature to work a little faster when put under pressure and yes your right that is just working within my hours and doing no more in reality. But, is it fair to be put under that pressure on a regular basis.
Whilst there maybe no concrete national agreement relating to resource to workload, there have been more than one joint statement mentioning it as well as the utilisation of paid working hours and a fair and manageable workload- surely there is a procedure for the implementation of these things and consequent failure to adhere?

[ted_e_bear]

Same here if you're catching up within your duty time then surely you're just working, so if work is left that you haven't got time to do ie kill offs etc that possibly are getting ignored can't you leave something a bit more important like sending off reports to DSM if that's what Dom support does, yes you'll prob get a ticking off but if you haven't got time cos you're out on delivery then so be it.

[Mezza]

OK let's spin this the other way round so that some of you can better understand...(forget the whole USA thing with regard mail - it's just figurative).

Let's assume you have a regular delivery duty - same old round everyday for a couple of years. You go into work do your ips, throw off your walk, bag up and go out. Once done your allowed to go home. Simples.

But then out of the blue one day, after you've bagged up and are ready to leave the office your DOM tells you he wants you to throw off and take out a completely different walk. Oh, and as he can't cover the duty your supposed to be doing it will be there for tomorrow when you come in. You do as told as after all it's only going to be what you can achieve within your paid hours right.

The next day your left alone to get on with your regular duty which don't forget already has loads of work left from yesterday. Oh yeah, yesterday you saw people getting back from delivery and going home while you were still prepping this other duty.

Then your left alone for a few weeks and then all of a sudden exactly the same thing happens. And lo and behold it then becomes a little more of a regular thing.
So how would you feel?

[BarnsleyLackey]

OK let's spin this the other way round so that some of you can better understand...(forget the whole USA thing with regard mail - it's just figurative).

Let's assume you have a regular delivery duty - same old round everyday for a couple of years. You go into work do your ips, throw off your walk, bag up and go out. Once done your allowed to go home. Simples.

But then out of the blue one day, after you've bagged up and are ready to leave the office your DOM tells you he wants you to throw off and take out a completely different walk. Oh, and as he can't cover the duty your supposed to be doing it will be there for tomorrow when you come in. You do as told as after all it's only going to be what you can achieve within your paid hours right.

The next day your left alone to get on with your regular duty which don't forget already has loads of work left from yesterday. Oh yeah, yesterday you saw people getting back from delivery and going home while you were still prepping this other duty.

Then your left alone for a few weeks and then all of a sudden exactly the same thing happens. And lo and behold it then becomes a little more of a regular thing.
So how would you feel?

I'd sooner do my own duty, but they can apparently use you as needed. The overrun procedure would be followed on the new walk I'm doing on day one. The following day, when back on my own, I'd be telling them how much I'm leaving in.

To answer your question: A little bit narked. But at the end of the day, we're paid up to a certain time to deliver mail. So that's what we do.

[General Mannerheim]

Mezza,
I am in a similar position to you but and here is the thing.......nobody gives a f**k.
Not the Union and certainly not the managers,as for your fellow workers,most of them are delivery staff and think all indoor staff are lazy twats who have a PHD in crayoning skills and that your a really a bit of a joey who spends all day doing nothing much except drinking tea and doing the crossword ,they are not going to be arsed if your expected to work to your time or if you go over,neither are they arsed if their own colleagues are being stiffed so long as they can get home early and `sock it to the man` by making an hour..thus it has ever been in Royal Fail land.

The best way is to also not give a f**k,do your hours,if it means leaving a huge pile of kill offs failing over the floor until elf and safety takes an interest or more likely a DSM makes a visit or an auditor is going to turn up then so be it,putting in a grievance is not going to be an answer as the union rep as you know does not give a f**k,putting in a B+H will only result in it being downgraded to a grievance anyway and even in the highly unlikely event they do proceed with a B+H they will then turn it into a bad faith bolloxs or say you have a beef or a "clash of personality" against a manager....basically your screwed,just take it up the Harris like everybody else.

[Mezza]

Mezza,
I am in a similar position to you but and here is the thing.......nobody gives a f**k.
Not the Union and certainly not the managers,as for your fellow workers,most of them are delivery staff and think all indoor staff are lazy twats who have a PHD in crayoning skills and that your a really a bit of a joey who spends all day doing nothing much except drinking tea and doing the crossword ,they are not going to be arsed if your expected to work to your time or if you go over,neither are they arsed if their own colleagues are being stiffed so long as they can get home early and `sock it to the man` by making an hour..thus it has ever been in Royal Fail land.

The best way is to also not give a f**k,do your hours,if it means leaving a huge pile of kill offs failing over the floor until elf and safety takes an interest or more likely a DSM makes a visit or an auditor is going to turn up then so be it,putting in a grievance is not going to be an answer as the union rep as you know does not give a f**k,putting in a B+H will only result in it being downgraded to a grievance anyway and even in the highly unlikely event they do proceed with a B+H they will then turn it into a bad faith bolloxs or say you have a beef or a "clash of personality" against a manager....basically your screwed,just take it up the Harris like everybody else.

And never a truer word spoken.

[wannabeek]

OK let's spin this the other way round so that some of you can better understand...(forget the whole USA thing with regard mail - it's just figurative).

Let's assume you have a regular delivery duty - same old round everyday for a couple of years. You go into work do your ips, throw off your walk, bag up and go out. Once done your allowed to go home. Simples.

But then out of the blue one day, after you've bagged up and are ready to leave the office your DOM tells you he wants you to throw off and take out a completely different walk. Oh, and as he can't cover the duty your supposed to be doing it will be there for tomorrow when you come in. You do as told as after all it's only going to be what you can achieve within your paid hours right.

The next day your left alone to get on with your regular duty which don't forget already has loads of work left from yesterday. Oh yeah, yesterday you saw people getting back from delivery and going home while you were still prepping this other duty.

Then your left alone for a few weeks and then all of a sudden exactly the same thing happens. And lo and behold it then becomes a little more of a regular thing.
So how would you feel?

Lol! That's just another usual day at work for me! Sometimes I just turn up and look around the office to see which round failed the day before so that I've got a fair idea of where I'm going to end up that day!

I'm afraid that everyone is in the same boat nowadays - work your hours or get OT if you want it. There may be some (or even many) who sneak away early in your office, but that's a management prob, not a postie one. I'd be surprised if that practise continues indefinitely, no matter where you are, judging from what I have seen change in the last few years.

[steve1873]

OK let's spin this the other way round so that some of you can better understand...(forget the whole USA thing with regard mail - it's just figurative).

Let's assume you have a regular delivery duty - same old round everyday for a couple of years. You go into work do your ips, throw off your walk, bag up and go out. Once done your allowed to go home. Simples.

But then out of the blue one day, after you've bagged up and are ready to leave the office your DOM tells you he wants you to throw off and take out a completely different walk. Oh, and as he can't cover the duty your supposed to be doing it will be there for tomorrow when you come in. You do as told as after all it's only going to be what you can achieve within your paid hours right.

The next day your left alone to get on with your regular duty which don't forget already has loads of work left from yesterday. Oh yeah, yesterday you saw people getting back from delivery and going home while you were still prepping this other duty.

Then your left alone for a few weeks and then all of a sudden exactly the same thing happens. And lo and behold it then becomes a little more of a regular thing.
So how would you feel?

I wouldn't give a f***. I have X amount of hours in any given day to complete a given workload. If the workload is more than can be done in the allocated time, then it is a management problem, simple as that.

[Mezza]

All suggestions gratefully considered, but please leave out comments like just do your hours and let the DOM worry if your regular work piles up. We want to address the issue once and for all - this has been going on since revision and a previous DOM some 2 years now.

I do wish people could understand simple english

Since working for RM, some 15 years now, i have learnt that if you want something doing, then best do it yourself. Letting the DOM, who really hasn't much of a clue what he's doing, sort it, will just result in a repeat of the issue.

[Sir Henry]

but please leave out comments like just do your hours and let the DOM worry if your regular work piles up.

that is an aspiration only.