Annual leave stitch up?!!

[iHateD2Ds]

Just got my annual leave card for next 2016 / 2017 term and a piss take it is. Out of the sixteen different week combinations I applied for I didn't receive any I had chosen.

I went on to ask my line manager for a the full list of allocated leave so I could check whose got what and found people who had term time working arrangements taking up slots.

For example during a six week summer period there are eight available slots per week to which three are taking up by persons on term time only arrangement.

Surely if a person has an arrangement / contract not to work a set period ie school holidays then this should not be classed as annual leave and therefore should not be taking up an annual leave slot?

I do feel something is not quite right
Why should term time arrangement impede on others who wish to take the same week and cannot because vacant slot is taken up ?

Surely this also discriminates against those with no children.

[Judgee]

Yup people are rewarded for choosing to breed. Happens in every workplace but what can you do!

From RMs point of view they are stuffed just as those who have to work around others family friendly privileges'. They have to count all leavers in the tally count. Just because some spots are filled by term timers doesn't mean they can cope with any less staff.

They add to the difficulties of just getting a Saturdays off as a well, as they tend to get all those days too!

Let it go you are fighting a losing battle!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

[Hitcher]

The worst offenders are those who pick school holidays but don't have any kids (or they're grown up) and then come in that week on overtime. If they didn't want that week it could have gone to someone who wanted it.

[iHateD2Ds]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

I do not have an issue with the term time concept but I fail to understand why no additional resources are not brought in to cover the time they are off.

There are many people with families who would love a term time contract but can not afford to take a pay cut and
very same people are also being squeeze out of the chance getting annual leave during school holidays.

Royal Mail have implemented it in very Tory fashion (If you can afford to pay you go to the front)

It's really a kick in the teeth and the union should wake up and address the seriousness of it.

[bogstandard]

The worst offenders are those who pick school holidays but don't have any kids (or they're grown up) and then come in that week on overtime. If they didn't want that week it could have gone to someone who wanted it.

its not an offence to pick a/l you want, whether that be in or out of term time regardless of how many children you may have or their ages.
It is an offence to then allow that same person to attend on o/t when they should be on a/l. If they choose to work during their holiday they could join an agency or similar, but as far as RM is concerned they will not be attending due to a/l and should not be allowed to attend. The problem will arise if you go hell for leather stating this only to find out they have handed it back so best bet is to keep in touch with whoever (bookroom usually) does a/l and submit a written request for a cancellation for that week. Keep on top of it, keep a diary, be relentless in your pursiut of that weeks a/l and if that person attneds get your union in on it and go through the grievance procedure.

[Judgee]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

Additional rights for some members at the expense of the working rights of others is not a battle won!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

Additional rights for some members at the expense of the working rights of others is not a battle won!

so what additional rights should be given up?
Equality Act
Sick Pay
Maternity Pay
Paternity Pay
Dependants Leave
Parental Leave

From your previous posts you have used at least one of those rights, a right for a parent to take leave at certain times of the year may be perceived as at the expense of others but its not really, there a number of rights that apply to everyone and its not fair to say that those rights cant be used when needed, it would be like saying you can only take the maternity leave when the baby was 3 months old just so no lapsing needed to be done to cover it for a set period,

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The worst offenders are those who pick school holidays but don't have any kids (or they're grown up) and then come in that week on overtime. If they didn't want that week it could have gone to someone who wanted it.

its not an offence to pick a/l you want, whether that be in or out of term time regardless of how many children you may have or their ages.
It is an offence to then allow that same person to attend on o/t when they should be on a/l. If they choose to work during their holiday they could join an agency or similar, but as far as RM is concerned they will not be attending due to a/l and should not be allowed to attend. The problem will arise if you go hell for leather stating this only to find out they have handed it back so best bet is to keep in touch with whoever (bookroom usually) does a/l and submit a written request for a cancellation for that week. Keep on top of it, keep a diary, be relentless in your pursiut of that weeks a/l and if that person attneds get your union in on it and go through the grievance procedure.

it is not actually against the law to work your annual leave or allow it to happen, it is only against the way forward agreement, so if its being allowed to happen then the correct course is to get rep to put in a disagreement over it

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I do not have an issue with the term time concept but I fail to understand why no additional resources are not brought in to cover the time they are off.

To be fair to royal mail or any other private company if the have an obligation/ability to provide these additional rights without incurring any extra costs and still allowing other employees to take their annual leave then what compulsion would they have to pay out any extra money

There are many people with families who would love a term time contract but can not afford to take a pay cut and
very same people are also being squeeze out of the chance getting annual leave during school holidays.

There are different rights that these people could use to get the holidays they want, term time working is not the only option, using the family friendly policy to their advantage is what they should be doing, rather than criticise when people correctly use a policy to their benefit, it is far better for a rep to look for other policies to help out other members of staff in their personal circumstances

[Judgee]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

Additional rights for some members at the expense of the working rights of others is not a battle won!

so what additional rights should be given up?
Equality Act
Sick Pay
Maternity Pay
Paternity Pay
Dependants Leave
Parental Leave

From your previous posts you have used at least one of those rights, a right for a parent to take leave at certain times of the year may be perceived as at the expense of others but its not really, there a number of rights that apply to everyone and its not fair to say that those rights cant be used when needed, it would be like saying you can only take the maternity leave when the baby was 3 months old just so no lapsing needed to be done to cover it for a set period,

One big difference with family friendly rated benefits ZX, people CHOOSE to be parents. They don't choose to have a disability or an illness, they can't choose their sex (well within normal circumstances)!

[rhino49]

The original idea of "lapsing" was to enable extra leave periods to be granted during summer holiday periods thereby meeting the companies commitment to family friendly arrangements - once it became an excuse for saving expenses all the year round it became ineffective and holiday bottlenecks are back to square one !!!

[bogstandard]

The worst offenders are those who pick school holidays but don't have any kids (or they're grown up) and then come in that week on overtime. If they didn't want that week it could have gone to someone who wanted it.

its not an offence to pick a/l you want, whether that be in or out of term time regardless of how many children you may have or their ages.
It is an offence to then allow that same person to attend on o/t when they should be on a/l. If they choose to work during their holiday they could join an agency or similar, but as far as RM is concerned they will not be attending due to a/l and should not be allowed to attend. The problem will arise if you go hell for leather stating this only to find out they have handed it back so best bet is to keep in touch with whoever (bookroom usually) does a/l and submit a written request for a cancellation for that week. Keep on top of it, keep a diary, be relentless in your pursiut of that weeks a/l and if that person attneds get your union in on it and go through the grievance procedure.

it is not actually against the law to work your annual leave or allow it to happen, it is only against the way forward agreement, so if its being allowed to happen then the correct course is to get rep to put in a disagreement over it

perhaps i could have used the word offensive instead

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

unions have fought hard for the additional rights for parents and other rights for others over the years, personally I would not be arguing to give up these hard won rights, if you do its a race to the bottom.

Additional rights for some members at the expense of the working rights of others is not a battle won!

so what additional rights should be given up?
Equality Act
Sick Pay
Maternity Pay
Paternity Pay
Dependants Leave
Parental Leave

From your previous posts you have used at least one of those rights, a right for a parent to take leave at certain times of the year may be perceived as at the expense of others but its not really, there a number of rights that apply to everyone and its not fair to say that those rights cant be used when needed, it would be like saying you can only take the maternity leave when the baby was 3 months old just so no lapsing needed to be done to cover it for a set period,

One big difference with family friendly rated benefits ZX, people CHOOSE to be parents. They don't choose to have a disability or an illness, they can't choose their sex (well within normal circumstances)!

but they do have the choice whether to continue working for royal mail if they have a disability etc where in the past they could be thrown out on their ear