Ballot on the deal.

strangler · Post by **strangler** » 13 Oct 2007, 17:31

Does it just need a simple majority for any deal to be voted through?
Premature I know but what do people think will be result of the ballot? Personally I`ve heard so much moaning about the strikes and losing money at my office that I suspect just about anything will get voted in.

Post by **POSTMAN** » 13 Oct 2007, 17:42

I`ve heard so much moaning about the strikes and losing money at my office that I suspect just about anything will get voted in.

Thats a big problem and a good possibility.

trojan · Post by **trojan** » 13 Oct 2007, 17:50

thats a strong possibilty strangler but your rep will help out and we are all wise enough to know if we are being sold out or not.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 13 Oct 2007, 18:12

I fear that strangler is dead right. One bloke said to me today 'to be perfectly honest, whatever the deal that is put to us is, I'll be voting for it because I'm fed up with all this business now'

Look at how the Way Forward agreement got voted in. Yet you try and find anyone now who'll actually admit they voted for it !

Biggins · Post by **Biggins** » 13 Oct 2007, 18:24

I hope RM doesn't read this thread... If they continue to offer us unacceptable terms we are still going to refuse. Union members rejected the offer in the first place and voted for strike action knowing full well that we would all be walking. What people say and what people actually do are two different things. I know that from all the people who were talking about scabbing yet still didn't cross that line.

jemima · Post by **jemima** » 13 Oct 2007, 19:38

The right way forward will become clear on Monday, I hope. And we'll be at the beginning of a new week, all refreshed and ready to start the argument again if need be. Let's wait and see.

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 13 Oct 2007, 19:42

The way forward - I'm afraid this agreement may be called the "Flexibility fcuk over" but I am hopeful its a good deal I just cant see the Union backing down on the major things.

catch · Post by **catch** » 13 Oct 2007, 20:02

TrueBlueTerrier wrote:The way forward - I'm afraid this agreement may be called the "Flexibility fcuk over" but I am hopeful its a good deal I just cant see the Union backing down on the major things.

I can't see them saying "we're going to back down" - but this "flexibility - local agreements" gets them off the hook completely with the same overall effect. Actually it's even worse - because if they said "we're accepting all the flexibility, starts next week" there'd be a lot of resistance, the local agreements means it doesn't hit people immediately and when it does they'll be isolated.

Same thing with two-tier pensions - as soon as there's a big enough percentage of workers not on final salary, it'll be easy to close it down for the workers who've still got it - so if that goes through this time, I reckon 5, 10 years (i.e. before the vast majority of posters on here are due for retirement) they'll be back at it again and again, against a smaller and smaller number of workrs.

Bulldog · Post by **Bulldog** » 16 Oct 2007, 15:42

The deal can't be that good considering they're still delaying putting it to us.

We need to stay strong and only accept a deal that is right

Post by **Ret** » 17 Oct 2007, 01:07

Can only strongly agree with the general feeling above. I'm throwing my opinion in here cos, though not a post worker, I realise that this is the most important UK strike since the miners' strike of 84-85 (take that as a big complement!) and like that strike its outcome will also have big implications for, not only yourselves, but also the rest of the working class in terms of confidence and inspiration to struggle - maybe for a long time.

Every time you've been on strike now - you were, if not on the brink, well on the way to victory. Every time the union then called off the action. So you're put in the position of yet again handing back the advantage to the bosses. If this deal is as crap as it seems to smell, how will you respond? It seems to me the quickest, most dependable way to decisively reject it is to wildcat again. When you're out and the mail backlog is building up you're in control and you're winning. Every other situation has put you in a weaker position.

The union leadership has its own separate interests;
1) They need to show they are a necessary part of labour relations and indispensible to RM. That they can control their members and keep them productive; and so protect their lucrative position as negotiators. So even a crap deal 'won' at the negotiating table helps them alot more than a deal won by independent wildcat action. That's the logic that makes sense to a union leader. (Though CWU will use the threat of wildcats as added leverage in negotiations.)
2) Their future career options - a seat in the House of Lords, or whatever other cushy position keeping in with the Labour/TUC bosses delivers. After 'a bad week in politics' Brown obviously put pressure on both sides to end the strikes.

If the CWU can deliver all you want, cast iron guaranteed, all well and good - but who really believes that? Don't let them lead you into snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. You've come this far - you know what tactics are your strongest assets and what's at stake. So don't let anyone lead you down the garden path of easy compromise. The long drawn out process of rejecting by ballot, balloting for new strikes etc would probably put you back years from where you are now, all present momentum lost and maybe new practices forced through in the meantime. If you don't use every advantage you have to the utmost while you can you will be kicking yourselves for years to come. Seize the time... and good luck.