suspended

[jasont79]

hi sorry if this has been covered before but im after a bit of advice i was on my way home yesterday in the van when my wife called to say she was running late and could i go and get the little one out of school and wait for her as i came out of school there was a manager from a different area standing next to my van he said that i had left the van unlocked and a window slightly open and that if i was caught i would get into a lot of trouble he also said that i shouldnt be taking little one home in the van but never gave me chance to explain before saying that if any one says anything he hasnt seen me and that im not in his area and not in his durastiction he walked off and my wife arrived got little one and i went home i have gone in today and called into the office he has reported me for leaving all the windows open pda left in the craddle and mail left in the van and said that i told him i was picking son up because my car had broken down i have now been suspended pending a investigation were do i stand

[coxie]

Can't really think of a good lie, just tell the truth, say sorry, say you were unaware that it would be a problem picking up your child. Also I think we are allowed to leave the window open slightly when the weather is hot but not enough that someone could possibly break in. Plead a big of ignorance, probably give you a warning.

[35wayno]

I agree, tell the truth, and make sure they understand that you NEVER intended to take your lad in the van. Obviously you were concerned about your lad. They might charge you with a lesser serious offence. Because another manager was involved they will probably progress this case just to be seen to be taking appropriate action. It seems you are bang to rights and there is no easy way to say it, you could well be dismissed under integrity of mails. Whatever you do don't be tempted to lie your way out of this. If you were in your own delivery patch they probably won't go down the off route, or unauthorised use of a vehicle. Your union rep will be clued up on all these matters so use him/her fully
At the formal interview you may be able to influence the conduct manager into keeping this matter at their level which means a maximum 2 years serious warning ( normally with you promising not to appeal). You may well have to take this one on the chin.

Good luck kiddo, hope all turns out well

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

just also to make you aware, the evidence standard is not the same requirement as in a court of law, so not seeing you take your son home in the van doesnt really matter, it just needs to be whether it would be reasonable to assume thats what was going to happen, they do not need to prove you did even if they sack you for it and you then take it to an employment tribunal, they just need to show that their actions were reasonable so they could go down an an authorised passenger route as well

looking at the othe3r facts

you appear to be off route
you have left the vehicle insecure

the second could constitute gross misconduct under security of mail, the first would just normally be misconduct, you are looking at a potential dismissal and are considered a risk to mail hence why suspended, get onto your area rep asap

[Newbie001]

Slightly confused here. He said he was on his way home. Why would there be any mail or PDA in the van.

[jasont79]

There was no mail in the van I had finished also the pda is the regular guys that he keeps in the vehicle it was covered up in the centre but not in the holder as the manager said it was

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

has your dom given you permission and done a risk assessment for you to take the van home under the van home retention policy?

[Stella102]

if you signed a vehicle retention policy it clearly states that you should not under any circumstance use the van for personal use.

do not speak to the manager without your area rep present

[UnhappyGremlin]

Ask to see photographic evidence.

I'd have taken photo's if I was going to report someone. (Maybe he/she did).

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Ask to see photographic evidence.

Why ?

If they did take a photograph then it's an open and shut case.

If they didn't it doesn't matter, the manager does not need "evidence" to proceed on a disciplinary case, all they need is a reasonable belief given the information available at the time.

Thanks in part to various hues of conservative governments (including the pink tories) the "Employee Justice system" is very Medieval in its application. The higher your status the more weight is placed on your evidence.

[Newbie001]

The manager has obviously lied about mail being in the van. Who's to say he didn't lie about the van being left open and even if he didn't one lie may offset the other.
Think they've jumped the gun here and suspended him for the totally the wrong reason. Would be very surprised if union didn't get this thrown out. But as managers seem to stick together who knows.

[Lounge Lizard]

But was "mail left in the van" or not, something that would not be expected of one on us on our way home ?

[UnhappyGremlin]

Ask to see photographic evidence.

Why ?

If they did take a photograph then it's an open and shut case.

Yes. But it wouldn't matter. But if they didn't, then why not? Is it because they are being flexible with their evidence?

If they didn't it doesn't matter, the manager does not need "evidence" to proceed on a disciplinary case, all they need is a reasonable belief given the information available at the time.

Disagree.
It comes down to one persons word against another's, neither can be proven or disproven.
It would be highly unlikely that someone would be dismissed in this situation.
Otherwise, anybody, whether it be a manager or regular postie, could make any claim, and as long as they were first or both stories in part were the same, the one making the accusation would be reasonably believed to be the one telling the truth?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Ask to see photographic evidence.

Why ?

If they did take a photograph then it's an open and shut case.

Yes. But it wouldn't matter. But if they didn't, then why not? Is it because they are being flexible with their evidence?

If they didn't it doesn't matter, the manager does not need "evidence" to proceed on a disciplinary case, all they need is a reasonable belief given the information available at the time.

Disagree.
It comes down to one persons word against another's, neither can be proven or disproven.
It would be highly unlikely that someone would be dismissed in this situation.
Otherwise, anybody, whether it be a manager or regular postie, could make any claim, and as long as they were first or both stories in part were the same, the one making the accusation would be reasonably believed to be the one telling the truth?

they do not need to prove or disprove anything, all it comes down to in employment law is if there is a reasonable expectation that the event occurred, that is all that is needed to dismiss someone, below is case where someone has been dismissed with just such a "reasonable belief"

Colleague in Exeter has was summarily dismissed on Monday for leaving his van in the yard with the passenger’s seatbelt plugged into the driver’s seat belt holder,at no time was he seen driving without a seatbelt.He has denied driving the van without a sealtbelt.

Regardless of is it fair is it this is it that,(His branch is looking into it ect)this is Royal Mail!

Belt up...properly!

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