Dirty tricks

[DB1100]

In the last few years we have had 5 or 6 full timers leave for one reason or another and nobody has been made up,no jobs have been advertised in the last 3 years and then all of a sudden we have had someone transfer in to our DO with only a few years in the job but with a full time contract,how is it that there are no vacancies for part timers to be made up but there is a vacancy for someone to transfer in,seems wrong to all those part timers with 9 or 10 years service who were waiting patiently to be made up.

[ted_e_bear]

It's a kick in the teeth isn't it, happened a few years ago at our place just got told tough they were surplus staff at their old office so had to go somewhere !

[Jpro747]

Yep, happens at ours regularly, and they bring their seniority with them.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

What has your rep said about it?

[DB1100]

Just accepted it.The person that came has only been with RM for just over 3 years,we have 12 year people on part time.

[coxie]

The national agreement states that if there's a full time position available it must be offered to existing part time staff before allowing someone to transfer in.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Just accepted it.The person that came has only been with RM for just over 3 years,we have 12 year people on part time.

tell him to read the way forward agreement and put in a stage 1 disagreement when applicable if the vacancy isn't filled and to follow the ir process through

[Mezza]

There may well be Agreements in place to stop this sort of thing. However, 'operational needs' often means they can get away with anything and all these agreements aren't worth the paper their written on in reality when it comes to protecting us. When it comes to supporting a RM idea the shoe is always on the other foot.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

There may well be Agreements in place to stop this sort of thing. However, 'operational needs' often means they can get away with anything and all these agreements aren't worth the paper their written on in reality when it comes to protecting us. When it comes to supporting a RM idea the shoe is always on the other foot.

You say that but Royal Mail are very loath to implement something via executive decision if it's going through the full ir process upto and including a ballot, usually it gets implemented as the rep does bother following the ir process fully

[Mezza]

I might agree with you to a degree on a national level, on a local ;evel you couldn't be further from the truth in my DO.

If you interested in just one example read through my comments here http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 93#p625593" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A national agreement was ignored, a statement from Moyra was ignored. A local ballot was used against staff and executive action was used by not only our DOm but also by those that dealt with the greivance and rejected it.

Further greivances have been lodged at level 2 at didn't even get a hearing, they were completely disregarded.

Two years post office revision and we still haven't had a resign despite every duty in the office having been affected.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

I might agree with you to a degree on a national level, on a local ;evel you couldn't be further from the truth in my DO.

If you interested in just one example read through my comments here http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 93#p625593" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A national agreement was ignored, a statement from Moyra was ignored. A local ballot was used against staff and executive action was used by not only our DOm but also by those that dealt with the greivance and rejected it.

Further greivances have been lodged at level 2 at didn't even get a hearing, they were completely disregarded.

Two years post office revision and we still haven't had a resign despite every duty in the office having been affected.

Actually your post just highlights my point exactly.

your rep never went down the ir route. you went down the route of lodging a grievance instead which is a completely different process and more dealt with internally by RM hence the out come. A stage 1 disagreement is completely different to a stage 1 grievance, you should have followed the IR process instead,

putting it simply (it is more complicated than this but it's a fair analogy) a grievance is where an individual or group of individuals are not happy about the actions of another individual and then RM investigate it to see if there are any merits. A disagreement is where the union are against a change in workplace and then they negotiate with RM to find an acceptable solution.


reps need to be better educated to be able to fight changes in their offices more effectively

[Mezza]

In my case it was my DOM that changed my attendance pattern without notice or even discussion. It affected 2 other members of staff as well.
As it was the direct actions of our DOm using executive action to implement the change we took the grievance out.

At Level 3 it was explained that there had in fact been a change to our attendance patterns by local agreement of which (according to the local rep and area rep) the union knew nothing about.
Knowing nothing of the local agreement it appeared that it was purely down to our DOm and so that was the reason for a grievance and not a disagreement.

I was under the impression that if it was (as in our case) the actions of a manager that you were disputing then a grievance was the correct procedure, it appears that is not then the case?
However, i believe that having gone to level 3 grievance we now cannot do anything else.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

In my case it was my DOM that changed my attendance pattern without notice or even discussion. It affected 2 other members of staff as well.
As it was the direct actions of our DOm using executive action to implement the change we took the grievance out.

At Level 3 it was explained that there had in fact been a change to our attendance patterns by local agreement of which (according to the local rep and area rep) the union knew nothing about.
Knowing nothing of the local agreement it appeared that it was purely down to our DOm and so that was the reason for a grievance and not a disagreement.

I was under the impression that if it was (as in our case) the actions of a manager that you were disputing then a grievance was the correct procedure, it appears that is not then the case?
However, i believe that having gone to level 3 grievance we now cannot do anything else.

in my opinion you went down the completely wrong route, should have been a stage 1 disagreement from the start and insisting on the status quo until the disagreement was resolved, it's not too late to go down disagreement route get your rep to put in a stage 1, due to the time passed since it started I don't think you would be able to insist on the status quo until resolved but the ir process is still there to be used follow it through all the way and get a ballot for action if it gets that far.

worth remembering that your rep and Area rep don't need to agree with you on the issues they are in positions to argue on your behalf regardless of their opinion and regardless of if you are actually in the wrong, they can give advice and advise against action but should follow the wishes of the office, though the wished of the office may be where you fall down as you need to be certain of support for a ballot if it gets that far, not much point fighting all the way if the union members in the office won't support you in a ballot

[POSTMAN]

RESOURCING TO JOBS (F/T AND P/T) THAT DO NOT REQUIRE SELECTION BY SKILLS

14.1 Royal Mail and CWU recognise the need for Royal Mail to have the facility to recruit directly to full-time posts in all operational units. This agreement therefore replaces the relevant provisions of the SFMB and modifies paragraph 3e) of the Agreement on Delivery Issues, accordingly. Both parties also recognise the need to provide employees with the opportunity to change jobs in a way that fulfils their legitimate development aspirations, meets possible personal needs and avoids disruption to service and to customers.


14.2 The principles underpinning the new Resourcing Agreement are set out below.

External recruitment to full-time posts is essential to ensure that RM has the widest choice of candidates from which to select.
Existing and future part-time employees will continue to have opportunities to gain full-time employment locally and further afield.
The filling of posts should result in minimum disruption by ensuring that a full-time vacancy does not trigger a series of moves.
The practice of ‘most senior individual’ will be used when filling non-specialist jobs internally. The only jobs not filled on this basis are specified in Section 15: Selection by Skills.
Jobs advertised externally will be filled on an open resourcing basis and offered to the most suitable person.

14.3 The process for resourcing full-time and part-time, non-specialist posts will comprise one of four options, in the following order, unless agreed locally to change this order:

Internal advertisement of the job within the currently recognised resourcing unit/s.
Deployment of existing surplus employees.
The acceptance of an existing employee from the wider resourcing area or another resourcing area who has previously had his/her name placed on the transfer list for that resourcing unit.
External advertisement.

14.4 Where a full-time post is advertised internally, it will be available to all full-time employees and part-time employees, who have opted for full-time employment, in that resourcing unit. The posts will be filled on the basis of ‘most senior individual’. Where a part-time post is advertised internally, it will be available to all employees as above and filled in the same way.

14.5 The resulting vacancy will be temporarily filled by a reserve, a surplus employee, a transferee from within the wider resourcing area or another resourcing area or by direct recruitment in line with the process above.

14.6 When the number of consequential vacancies in the resourcing unit reaches 5%, or after a period of six months following the last such exercise (if earlier), the posts will be advertised in the resourcing unit, en bloc and filled on the basis of seniority. If this results in any further vacancies, these will be filled, using the same process as above.

14.7 Existing part-time employees, in post at the date of this Agreement, will be asked if they have an interest in full-time employment. A list will be maintained of these employees. Part-time employees on the list will be eligible to apply for internally-advertised posts, alongside full-time employees. They would then pick up the post based on their seniority. If unsuccessful they will be eligible to apply for future jobs advertised internally until appointed.

14.8 Where a full-time vacancy is advertised externally, all part-time staff will be able to express an interest. They will not have a right to the vacancy and will be considered alongside external applicants using the same criteria. Where unsuccessful, the reason will be explained in writing and they will be invited to discuss this with their line manager. They will remain in their current post and will have the opportunity to apply for future externally advertised full-time vacancies.

14.9 Employees taking up internally-advertised posts will be dedicated to them for a minimum of12 months. No applications for job moves will be considered during that period, unless they are:

For specialist posts;
As a result of serious personal or domestic reasons, following discussions with local CWU representatives.

14.10 RM and CWU locally will monitor the operation of this Agreement to ensure that the principles set out above are upheld and that a reasonable balance is secured between the Business need to have greater access to the full-time job changer market and the legitimate interests of existing and future part-time employees.

Way forward...
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 36&t=11941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Mezza]

in my opinion you went down the completely wrong route, should have been a stage 1 disagreement from the start and insisting on the status quo until the disagreement was resolved, it's not too late to go down disagreement route get your rep to put in a stage 1, due to the time passed since it started I don't think you would be able to insist on the status quo until resolved but the ir process is still there to be used follow it through all the way and get a ballot for action if it gets that far.

worth remembering that your rep and Area rep don't need to agree with you on the issues they are in positions to argue on your behalf regardless of their opinion and regardless of if you are actually in the wrong, they can give advice and advise against action but should follow the wishes of the office, though the wished of the office may be where you fall down as you need to be certain of support for a ballot if it gets that far, not much point fighting all the way if the union members in the office won't support you in a ballot

Unfortunately there in would lie the problem.
The issue was that the delivery staff worked to a 1 in 6 rotate.
The 3 indoor staff worked to a 1 in 4.

Our DOM via local agreement changed the indoor staff to a 1 in 6 inline with the rest of the office, but against the National Agreement with regard more long weekends and facilitating a 1 in 4 where possible etc.
We'd been working to a 1 in 4 for almost 10 years.
It was argued that if we were allowed to stick with the 1 in 4 then delivery staff would feel hard done by and want our jobs.
Delivery staff were fully aware of our rotate and there was not even one person looking to get an indoor position for the 1 in 4 rotate as it also meant working your full hours everyday, instead of last letter and knock.

A ballot would get us nowhere as there are only 3 staff affected and trying to get office support would get us nowhere.
Most delivery staff think we simply work indoors, do our hours and have an easy day.
They don't realise we now have to incorporate a delivery within the hours we have always had and are struggling to complete our duties most days.

Divide and conquer perhaps?
I do thank you for your advice however and perhaps next time will look a bit closer at correct procedures.