Rotation and rest days.

[magicw]

I ve been on deliveries for two years as a reserve ( not float ). Other than annual leave, in all this time I ve never had a Saturday off.
I initially agreed to do fixed rest day Tuesdays as this allowed my wife to plan her own work ( store manager has to write 2 weeks rotas in advance)
I ve now come off fixed rest days to try and create a situation where I might get a Saturday off after 2 years.
Basically our rest days don't rotate like everyone elses. I.E if they are off Thursday one week, then it will be Friday the next week.
My basic grumble is . One our rest days don't rotate. Two we never ever get a Saturday off.
Is it not in the agreement that all grades have a rotating rest day and would this not generate at least one in six Saturdays off.
In our office reserve rest days don't rotate, you never get a Saturday off. And your rest day is always moved to a Monday on the Bank Holiday.
Is this the same across the board? and is there anything I can do about it?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Rating days off - no

1 in 6 saturdays (or equivalent) - yes

Speak to your and ask his help to lodge a grievance

[chrisj]

If you are a leave Reserve, for example covering a postie on holiday, you will likely get a Monday or a Tuesday because a lot of posties plan their holidays to start on their long weekend...

You can also add the fact that a few posties will be on the sick - that reduces the number of Saturdays available especially for long term sick posties that are still entitled to their regular holidays.

With park and loop and resourcing to workload, sometimes Reserves will just have to be used as a Driver so that might also affect days off...

The other thing that takes Saturdays off is where Posties ask for Extra Saturdays off for any reason - often genuine family reasons or whatever.

In the past and in some offices, Extra Saturdays given will often be covered by OT but nowadays managers do not (and really should not) use OT to cover duties if they can simply lapse or increase lapsing; where volume is down.

If you add the fact that walkholders always get their saturdays off, then the rest is scrap for the Reserves; and seniority and favouritism also comes in. So also does child care arrangements or family friendly situations (e.g some always get half terms off).

All in all, as a Reserve, it is a battle to get saturdays off - you should continually remind managers but sometimes you just have to accept the situation.

A lot of offices do not have Spare staff or even takers on OT to ensure absolute average of 1 in 6 for all. And some managers are lazy and like an easy live - by picking on Reserves. Sad

[magicw]

Okay so basically reserves don't get a rotating rest day. So hoping that rotation will create a Saturday off every 6 weeks aint going to happen.

Do reserves have a different contract. I m employed as a Postman with driving in a reserve vacancy. Does the agreement not say that everyone is entitled to a rest day on rotations basis.

I thought we were all employed on the same terms and conditions. If not then surely that's discrimination.

To not have had a Saturday off in 2 years is surely taking the piss?

[chrisj]

But you also said that you agreed to a fixed day off for part of the 2 years...

You have to keep banging on about it to the managers but sometimes even a good manager will not be able to help you get 1 in 6.

If you do not have a fixed 1 in 6 then who is going to be monitoring that Reserves all get exactly or close to 1 in 6? In reality the Reserve position is being discriminated upon and that is sanctioned by the Union - they can even send you to another office before any walkholder - it is within the agreement...

It also does not help when a Reserve brings up such an issue at WTLL and he/she gets shouted down or told that it has always been like that - even your work colleagues help management discriminate against you...

Well, the way I see is that I have a job but I am unfortunate to be a Reserve - its not great but it could be worse.

I used to have a job where I had every weekend off, no overtime and monthly paid; but I was grossing about 2/3 of my current wage - so happy days!

I will like to get my entitlement but I really prefer a Wed or Thursday off and I am been known to work my day off - so after much protesting they give me a saturday off and I go chasing the money.

BTW, the same applies to some of those that bang on about wallingtons, hereford, 9-day fortnights: some of them do not use their days off to rest but carry on working even after punishing 6-day weeks for 5 weeks or so. Perhaps, they have easy rounds or offices!

[cuddyhung]

you wont get a saturday off ,, simple as that ,, on the rare times i covered a duty which had a saturday off ,, this got bumped to another day ,, with the old chestnut operational needs

[maximus12]

My office sounds just like yours, i'm a reserve and i very rarely get a saturday off. And like you it's always the bank holidays that are my day off.

[miles_peters]

never accept the situation as it is as someone said on here, that's exactly what management want, even though they know they are in the wrong.

royal mail is an equal opportunity business, everyone needs to be flexible, not just reserves.

operational needs or people off sick is not an excuse for you not getting a Saturday off or a long weekend off like everyone else gets.
you need to speak to your CWU rep, I hope you have one that isn't scared to speak up for you, back you, give you their time to discuss your issue, and fight until you get treated equally.

[Surreypostie]

The reserves in our office are all on the same as us, they all get a rotating day off.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The reserves in our office are all on the same as us, they all get a rotating day off.

That's good for your office but very unusual as unless people are allocated specific holidays to allow the rotation or lots of overtime is paid with volunteers specifically to allow that it is near enough impossible to achieve this due to the nature of the reserve position ie covering annual leave and sickness

[POSTMAN]

Reserves are entitled to 'within reason' the same as those who are holding rolling days off duties.
Get your lay arse rep and manager to sort it.

You will never get it exact,but by doing something you'll get a lot more than what you get now.

[trythat]

As I've said before I don't understand why reserves are not treated the same as fixed duty staff. We've always treated reserves the same, whether on rota days or as we are now on rota weeks. Why are OPG not getting on to their area reps or div reps, it's no harder to manage reserves than fixed staff. Poor and lazy management, plus I don't understand why the rest of the staff are not complaining.

[chrisj]

The rest of the staff will not complain because it does not affect them and some might lose privileges or this will lead to a loss of walkholder status and increase flexibility for all.

If a manager really want to be superair, he will restrict people getting extra saturdays off or he will make walkholders that take extra saturdays give up their saturday for a Reserve - and they will have to cover the Reserves duty (whatever it is, on that particular saturday).

Like I said, even amongst Reserves, some are more equal than others. Some do mainly firms/rural/drivers job and some do a limited range and others are just used all over the shop; including sending to other offices. And some reserves have family friendly arrangements and some have young kids and personal issues that need more saturday than people like me that do not care that much.

In a reasonably sized office with many reserves; a good and ultra fair manager will have to get his spreadsheet out and write an algorithm and/or monitor strictly every saturdays off to be even close to getting all Reserves 1 in 6. To get close to the ideal, he will have to do what I suggested above (swapping saturdays) and then controlling each duties - the Reserves will be chopping and changing all the time; including moving some Reserves off a rota-ed Saturday: for example a reserve might work 4 days on a duty and the last day, Saturday, he is moved off to allow another Reserve to have a saturday.

Nagging and mithering might help but I think the discrimination is built into the system. It is ever more so evident with cuts in jobs and offices being run on a shoe-string. Also the fact that some more senior members of staff have now been dragged into the mire whilst some very junior staff have walks. People are now expected to be more flexible even the senior reserves and junior walkholders (some are regularly moved from the walks in my office)

Even after that operational needs and words from DIM about costs and disruptions to status quo will not managers to achieve a fair system for Reserves.

Reserves getting a rotational saturday off? What sort of office is that?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

As I've said before I don't understand why reserves are not treated the same as fixed duty staff. We've always treated reserves the same, whether on rota days or as we are now on rota weeks. Why are OPG getting on to their area reps or div reps, it's no harder to manage reserves than fixed staff. Poor and lazy management, plus I don't understand why the rest of the staff are not complaining.

questions for you about this how does your office manage to get the rota day off for reserves every week?

Postie A is on annual Leave but his day off was scheduled to be Tuesday
Postie B is his Floater and due to work this duty on Tuesday and be off on Monday
Postie C is the Reserve and due to be off on Saturday by rotation

How does your office manage to give postie C his day off on the saturday and what happens on Tuesday when two people are potentially due to cover this duty

[ripio]

When I was a reserve for a year and a half after our revision, I raised the saturdays off issue several times with manager and rep. Manager said all we are entitled to is a day off, no entitlement to any pattern or saturdays, rep said we were entitled to same amount of saturdays as everyone else. Eventually, after checking with area, the rep backed down and accepted manager's position and I got nowhere.
Luckily I got a floating duty after re-sign but its still highly unfair and discriminatory towards reserves especially after the agreement in the 2010 document aiming to achieve at least one in four saturdays for all including reserves.