Fact-finding

[jimbob5000]

Hi all,

My lino came up to me the other day and asked for a quiet chat in the office. I had no reason to suspect abutting was wrong, so I agreed. Turns out he was doing a "fact-finding" because a van I had been driving over two weeks ago had been seen "out of area". He showed me a photo taken which shows the van I was driving about 0.5 miles out of the area the office covers on a particular date and time.
I have no problem with admitting that I was in the particular area at the time, and there are various reasons why I could have been there legitimately, which I told him at the time.
There are a few questions which I have regarding this.
1. Does a fact finding meeting constitute a meeting which could lead to disciplinary action, therefore should I have been offered 48 hours notice and representation?
2. I have been taken off driving whilst the issue is investigated. I normally do one SA collection a week which I am contracted in to - should I still be paid for this as, so far as I am concerned, I have done nothing wrong and in any case they haven't even formally charged me with anything yet?
3. It is common knowledge that many people in the office use a van to go to get coffee etc. between the time they finish delivery and start collection, which would necessitate them going off route, yet nobody else has ever faced such an investigation as far as I am aware. Could this be deemed discriminatory?
4. I do have a previous warning on my record for taking a van home unauthorised (stupid mistake, which I fully admitted at the time, just thought that I would get away with it). Is this likely to affect the outcome of this investigation?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.glosamal.co.uk/Docs/Conduct% ... eement.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[hatetheboss]

You have not had a fact finding meeting just an informal chat, from that chat your lino will access what you have said and decide whether a fact finding meeting is necessary to establish more facts.

If a fact finding goes ahead you will be given the opportunity to take a rep or work colleague in with you.The lino will then decide if any charges are warranted, and if he believes there are you will then have a conduct interview.

[jimbob5000]

You have not had a fact finding meeting just an informal chat, from that chat your lino will access what you have said and decide whether a fact finding meeting is necessary to establish more facts.

If a fact finding goes ahead you will be given the opportunity to take a rep or work colleague in with you.The lino will then decide if any charges are warranted, and if he believes there are you will then have a conduct interview.

The lino had a list of questions and was writing down my answers to them. At one point he said that he was just establishing the facts. Is this not a fact-finding?

[hatetheboss]

Did he send you a letter asking you to one and telling you your right to have representation.

If this did not happen he has:
1 Not followed correct procedure
2 Not done a fact finding interview, but an informal meeting.

[rehabron]

Hi all,

My lino came up to me the other day and asked for a quiet chat in the office. I had no reason to suspect abutting was wrong, so I agreed. Turns out he was doing a "fact-finding" because a van I had been driving over two weeks ago had been seen "out of area". He showed me a photo taken which shows the van I was driving about 0.5 miles out of the area the office covers on a particular date and time.
I have no problem with admitting that I was in the particular area at the time, and there are various reasons why I could have been there legitimately, which I told him at the time.
There are a few questions which I have regarding this.
1. Does a fact finding meeting constitute a meeting which could lead to disciplinary action, therefore should I have been offered 48 hours notice and representation?
2. I have been taken off driving whilst the issue is investigated. I normally do one SA collection a week which I am contracted in to - should I still be paid for this as, so far as I am concerned, I have done nothing wrong and in any case they haven't even formally charged me with anything yet?
3. It is common knowledge that many people in the office use a van to go to get coffee etc. between the time they finish delivery and start collection, which would necessitate them going off route, yet nobody else has ever faced such an investigation as far as I am aware. Could this be deemed discriminatory?
4. I do have a previous warning on my record for taking a van home unauthorised (stupid mistake, which I fully admitted at the time, just thought that I would get away with it). Is this likely to affect the outcome of this investigation?

1) Yes a fact finding meeting is exactly what it states gathering information that may or not lead to disciplinary action.
There is no legal requirement to have representation at a fact-finding interview as this is only mandatory at a disciplinary meeting unless waived by the employee.
2) Should the fact-finding interview not proceed beyond this or the disciplinary finds that there is no charges to be brought then you will be recompensed for the money lost for not attending your SA contract as this could be regarded as a form of punishment.
3) You at the fact-finding meeting what have to give a valid reason why your vehicle was off route at the time using the excuse that others are off route to get coffee is NOT a valid reason for your vehicle being seen in the area outside your recognised route and I hope you can have a more legitimate reason then the one that you are offering.
4) If the investigation goes further than the FF meeting then goes to a disciplinary then then any live previous disciplinary on your record will be taken into account.

[hatetheboss]

At the fact finding meeting you have the right to have representation If you were not given that right then Royal Mail have failed in their obligation for you to have this right.

If you are taken down the conduct code this must be mentioned at the hearing.

[jimbob5000]

Did he send you a letter asking you to one and telling you your right to have representation.

If this did not happen he has:
1 Not followed correct procedure
2 Not done a fact finding interview, but an informal meeting.

I didn't receive any prior notification, no. I will see what happens this week one determine whether he has conducted a fact-finding or not. Is there any timescale which they have to stick to in letting me know whether they are taking it further? I know it has to be a reasonable amount of time, but what counts as reasonable?

[hatetheboss]

You should be given 48 hours notice prior to the fact finding interview in the form of a letter. The fact finding interview forms part of the formal process and therefore you should have had the opportunity to have a representative accompany you.

[dvbuk55]

Just as a matter of interest who took the photo showing the precise time and the area you were in? What others do doesn't condone what you do and your previous conduct could well go against you. Do you think someone is setting you up.

[jimbob5000]

Just as a matter of interest who took the photo showing the precise time and the area you were in? What others do doesn't condone what you do and your previous conduct could well go against you. Do you think someone is setting you up.

I don't know who took the photo, and believe me it's crossed my mind that I'm being set up, but will have to wait and see.

[rehabron]

At the fact finding meeting you have the right to have representation If you were not given that right then Royal Mail have failed in their obligation for you to have this right.

If you are taken down the conduct code this must be mentioned at the hearing.

The fact-finding meeting should be done as you state within 48 hours of the incident so that the issue is clear in your mind and can be done informally or formal ( note taker present) and if formal you should have been invited to the meeting by letter.
There is no legal requirement to have a representative present at an investigatory interview as at present no charges have been formulated. You will receive a copy of the notes taken at this meeting with the opportunity to make amendments and return within 3 working days.
Once the amendments if any have been returned then you will be advised if the matter is going to a disciplinary meeting or not. It will then follow if the charges brought are within the punishment level of the first line manage ( 2 years serious ) or is being put to a higher level of authority if first line manager decides that the punishment is outwith his/her range.
You will then receive a written request to attend a conduct meeting and this where the employer has to notify you of your right to be accompanied at this meeting. Their failure to give you this representation would your case go to ACAS mediation and possibly an ET make the disciplinary procedure flawed.
If you felt that you wished to be represented at the FF then there is no problem but the lack of representation would only come within employers obligation if they failed to give you this opportunity at the conduct code meeting.

[hatetheboss]

At the fact finding meeting you have the right to have representation If you were not given that right then Royal Mail have failed in their obligation for you to have this right.

If you are taken down the conduct code this must be mentioned at the hearing.

The fact-finding meeting should be done as you state within 48 hours of the incident so that the issue is clear in your mind and can be done informally or formal ( note taker present) and if formal you should have been invited to the meeting by letter.
There is no legal requirement to have a representative present at an investigatory interview as at present no charges have been formulated. You will receive a copy of the notes taken at this meeting with the opportunity to make amendments and return within 3 working days.
Once the amendments if any have been returned then you will be advised if the matter is going to a disciplinary meeting or not. It will then follow if the charges brought are within the punishment level of the first line manage ( 2 years serious ) or is being put to a higher level of authority if first line manager decides that the punishment is outwith his/her range.
You will then receive a written request to attend a conduct meeting and this where the employer has to notify you of your right to be accompanied at this meeting. Their failure to give you this representation would your case go to ACAS mediation and possibly an ET make the disciplinary procedure flawed.
If you felt that you wished to be represented at the FF then there is no problem but the lack of representation would only come within employers obligation if they failed to give you this opportunity at the conduct code meeting.

A fact finding interview in Royal Mail guidelines is a formal process,never an informal one, therefore you should be given the right to have representation and this would be stated in the letter given prior to that meeting.

Before the actual fact finding interview the manager may call you into the office and informally ask you about the incident, from this he will then decide if he needs to establish more facts, hence the fact finding and the start of the formal process.

[gluteus maximus]

Under the ACAS code of practice there is no requirement to have a rep accompany the employee in a fact finding interview. Allowances should be made though if the employee asks for one but the employer does not have to ask if the employee requires a rep, A fact finding interview is not a formal process under any disciplinary procedure

You receive 48 hours minimum written notice and the right to be accompanied on a formal disciplinary meeting

An informal meeting can in other employment lead straight into a formal for which the employee must be told. Any Employment Tribunal would not be happy though if that was the case. That does not happen in Royal Mail as the business has seperate disciplinary procedures and agreements due to trade union recognition and representation

Rehabron is bang on and is obvious a rep, i take it your are not Hatetheboss???

[hatetheboss]

Under the ACAS code of practice there is no requirement to have a rep accompany the employee in a fact finding interview. Allowances should be made though if the employee asks for one but the employer does not have to ask if the employee requires a rep, A fact finding interview is not a formal process under any disciplinary procedure

You receive 48 hours minimum written notice and the right to be accompanied on a formal disciplinary meeting

An informal meeting can in other employment lead straight into a formal for which the employee must be told. Any Employment Tribunal would not be happy though if that was the case. That does not happen in Royal Mail as the business has seperate disciplinary procedures and agreements due to trade union recognition and representation

Rehabron is bang on and is obvious a rep, i take it your are not Hatetheboss???

I believe you are all getting mixed up in the advice I am giving, at no point did I mention it being a legal right to have representation at a fact finding interview, but I am stating that under the guidelines of the conduct code a fact finding is a formal part of the process and anyone has the right to representation.

See under page 3 - 4.3
Also the diagram page 12 appendix 1