losing our 9 day fortnites

[daveyeff]

there was a meeting today regarding changing our shift patterns. they are doing away with our 9 day fortnites and the 3 weeks on, one week off. their argument is there is not enough work on Monday Tuesdays and Saturdays to justify keeping them, and the model week dictates what we can and cannot have. they have give us 3 options, all of which entails us going back to a 5 day week. obviously none of us wants these options but they say it will mean job losses if we do not accept what is on offer. anyway a lad at the meeting said can he make a proposal of maintaining the status quo because nobody wants these options. the rep and a branch rep said no...we cant accept you're proposal because it means that 9 full time jobs will go if we keep our present shift patterns. the lad said he thought they were lying to get what they want. it looks like we are being given hobsons choice and worse, our union is on management side. also one lad said well if no-one votes for the options it would mean staying the same anyway...they said no...it would go through on a minority vote. any thoughts on this anyone...can we do anything?

[daveyeff]

forgot to mention,.....they say this is going to happen nationwide. they are doing away with these shift patterns all over.

[clashcityrocker]

...can we do anything?

Probably not.
Either there is sufficient work to justify the work pattern or there isn't. Your Branch is clearly of the opinion there isn't.
I don't think it is a nationwide thing because I know of offices where they are about to implement 9 day fortnights, though I would avoid it like the plague.
That is a long day to have to fill.

Probably at some point in the next 12 months they'll go to one wave and you will be looking at reverting to a 6 day week to maintain full time jobs, without having ridiculously long delivery spans.

[daveyeff]

they can get away with a minority vote though? and we cant keep the status quo?...arnt they supposed to represent OUR wishes....what WE want?

[clashcityrocker]

they can get away with a minority vote though? and we cant keep the status quo?...arnt they supposed to represent OUR wishes....what WE want?

It would appear you can keep the status quo if you lose 9 full time jobs.
If the VRs aren't on the table then are you happy to see 9 people get compulsory redundancy?

They can only represent YOUR wishes within certain limitations.
If YOUR wishes were a 4 day week and a 2 hour delivery span, do you think that is realistic?

Just accept your 9 day fortnights aren't realistic and move on.

[fishtank]

If YOUR wishes were a 4 day week and a 2 hour delivery span, do you think that is realistic?

Depends on the postcode and the divisional rep.

[Harv12]

we still work one weekend off in 6, got told it was impossible to get anymore

[daveyeff]

thing is though clash, we've had these shift patterns since this came in, in October 2010. so realistically there is nothing wrong with them. the fact that other offices are getting ready to implement these shifts speaks volumes. (mail volumes actually). how can there not be enough work in our office when there is obviously plenty of work at other offices. there's a lot of bad feeling in the office now. the sense of being sold down the river is raising its head again. its a case of it doesn't suit RM so they are bringing it in. morale with the union is at rock bottom.

[clashcityrocker]

thing is though clash, we've had these shift patterns since this came in, in October 2010. so realistically there is nothing wrong with them. the fact that other offices are getting ready to implement these shifts speaks volumes. (mail volumes actually). how can there not be enough work in our office when there is obviously plenty of work at other offices.

The delivery span and shift patterns will be determined by a number of things:
1. The volume of mail.
I have no idea where your office is but the arrival of TNT on some streets will have had an effect. Ditto Amazon.
The predicted expansion of TNT will also mean changing work patterns..
2. Your f/t to p/t ratio.
The more p/t staff you have the more attractive the options.
3. Did you even have sequenced mail in 2010?
Obviously the introduction of walk sequenced mail makes inroads into your indoor time.
4. Your model week.
The higher the model week, the more f/t jobs but with more lapsing.

And while I know of offices about to implement 9 day fortnights, I would bet money they will be gone by xmas.
Having seen the figures, I don't think they are sustainable. With a finishing time of 3.15pm I think some will be finished by about 1.30.
And that's not because of early starters/meal relief skippers/car users etc but because there simply isn't enough work to fill the contracted hours.

[daveyeff]

north east England....also they've said there is to be a 6 monthly review agreed nationally.....so basically if they don't like our new shift patterns in 6 months or it doesn't suit them, they'll pull the plug on those as well....they want us to vote on something that we or they don't know will be applicable in 6 months.

[wongpongrog]

in our office we have been on 9 day fortnights since 2010 and even working past 3 oclock still have lots of cut offs now they want us back on 5 day week bet they dont reduce the walks though

[fishtank]

they want us to vote on something that we or they don't know will be applicable in 6 months.

Welcome to the world of the Unit Readiness Check, Royal Mail don't like revisions, especially planner-led "by the book" revisions, they take too long and the market is moving so fast that the original data is out of date before the revision is implemented.

What they want is a return to the old "back of a packet of fags" table top revision which can be done and dusted in six weeks and revisited 6 months later. Some in the union favour this method, If you have a strong union presence and your divi rep is on hand you can get away with murder for years, Unfortunately if you don't know what you are doing and you couldn't pick your divi rep out of a line up you will probably get seriously screwed over...and then screwed over again in 6 months time etc, etc...

[Son Of God]

there was a meeting today regarding changing our shift patterns. they are doing away with our 9 day fortnites and the 3 weeks on, one week off. their argument is there is not enough work on Monday Tuesdays and Saturdays to justify keeping them, and the model week dictates what we can and cannot have. they have give us 3 options, all of which entails us going back to a 5 day week. obviously none of us wants these options but they say it will mean job losses if we do not accept what is on offer. anyway a lad at the meeting said can he make a proposal of maintaining the status quo because nobody wants these options. the rep and a branch rep said no...we cant accept you're proposal because it means that 9 full time jobs will go if we keep our present shift patterns. the lad said he thought they were lying to get what they want. it looks like we are being given hobsons choice and worse, our union is on management side. also one lad said well if no-one votes for the options it would mean staying the same anyway...they said no...it would go through on a minority vote. any thoughts on this anyone...can we do anything?

It sounds as if your Unit is being stitched up by management and our union. I would imagine nothing has changed other than RM have now decided to minimise rotations and your Branch hasn't the back bone to support the members.

Why does it mean 9 full time jobs have to go? What has drastically changed?

You mention Branch Rep, do you mean area rep or branch secretary?

If the majority are dissatisfied contact your Divisional Reps immediately.

Just because your rep agrees with management, that doesn't mean the majority has to.

[daveyeff]

one lad asked today if it was right that he wasn't allowed to vote on our upcoming options. apparently he has been told he wasn't allowed a vote on the choice of options because he has dropped out of the union, due to differences. can anyone clarify if he's entitled to a vote. his argument is that its his job choice he's voting on, and he's working for royal mail. the union says no, its a ballot. so only members can vote.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

one lad asked today if it was right that he wasn't allowed to vote on our upcoming options. apparently he has been told he wasn't allowed a vote on the choice of options because he has dropped out of the union, due to differences. can anyone clarify if he's entitled to a vote. his argument is that its his job choice he's voting on, and he's working for royal mail. the union says no, its a ballot. so only members can vote.

Yep only Union members get a vote on it. Unfortunately thats what he accepted when he signed the contract of employment accepting collective bargaining. The idea is the Union represent their members and get their views on the relevant matters. They then take that consensus to the management, if non members were allowed to vote of how the CWU should represent us then why are the rest of us paying dues.

I suppose there is nothing wrong with him going to management alone and presenting his views, but he won't have the power and solidarity of the Union behind him so they'll probably discount his views.

To break it down, the CWU will be representing its members in any discussions, he isn't a member so why should the Union present his views by allowing him to vote. He can't pick and chose when the CWU represent him, unless he is a member.