Gross Misconduct

[Natasha, Midlands]

Hi Guys, As you maybe aware I have been suspended since December and now charged with Gross misconduct both statements from the DOM and Lino are pure lies don't add up whatsoever. one thing I noticed in the statement was the lino put all his evidence forward but has not mentioned in his statement which day or the date these events took place? question is will that statement stand? he could have been talking about any day in 2014 for me..

[doorstepped]

everything that is put in these statements HAS to be correct.

get your area rep onto it asap ( if you are in the union )

I have faced 2 stage three attendance reviews and both times it has been downgraded to a stage 1 due to the Dom's doing something incorrect as per RM rules.

[Natasha, Midlands]

everything that is put in these statements HAS to be correct.

get your area rep onto it asap ( if you are in the union )

I have faced 2 stage three attendance reviews and both times it has been downgraded to a stage 1 due to the Dom's doing something incorrect as per RM rules.

Thanks for responding doorstep but as the lino has not put any date or day in the statement surly this must not be able to stand? if a solicitor read this he would probably say what day and date are we talking about here?

[Natasha, Midlands]

I know it has not happened yet but after a appeal where else can you go within Royal Mail? Don't seem to be getting much answers on here? They will defo dish something out on me after been suspended for 3 weeks now if not sacked. with having a good record I think they may reduce it to 2 year serious where I shouldn't be getting anything because of the lies...

[fishtank]

if a solicitor read this he would probably say what day and date are we talking about here?

While dates or a lack of them are important please bear in mind we aren't talking about a court of law and any evidence put forward does not have to prove anything, it simply has to support what would be considered a reasonable decision.
Look to undermine the big stuff and don't get caught up in technicalities.

[arnold cheshire]

if a solicitor read this he would probably say what day and date are we talking about here?

While dates or a lack of them are important please bear in mind we aren't talking about a court of law and any evidence put forward does not have to prove anything, it simply has to support what would be considered a reasonable decision.
Look to undermine the big stuff and don't get caught up in technicalities.

in a court of law they can use just a time frame say from oct 14 to dec14

[Lincox]

I know it has not happened yet but after a appeal where else can you go within Royal Mail? Don't seem to be getting much answers on here? They will defo dish something out on me after been suspended for 3 weeks now if not sacked. with having a good record I think they may reduce it to 2 year serious where I shouldn't be getting anything because of the lies...

Appeal stage is the final thing you can do within Royal Mail. Your next decision is whether to take this to an employment tribunal. You should be aware that if you are going to go to tribunal then there are time constraints related to the period in which you can apply. If you have to go to appeal then I suggest that you apply for this before the Appeal is heard. It is a Royal Mail trait that they delay the appeal process for as long as possible in the hope that you will not submit a claim form to the ET and will be out of time applying. If you get a decision that goes against you, submit the claim for ET at the same time as you submit an Appeal.

[General Mannerheim]

employers should not assume that once they have found an employee guilty of gross misconduct, having a carried out a reasonable investigation, they are always entitled to dismiss. It is still necessary to show that the decision to dismiss falls within the band of reasonable responses. There may be mitigating factors which make dismissal unreasonable and employers should always consider matters such as long service and a previous clean disciplinary record in deciding whether dismissal is the appropriate sanction.

They should but these arsewipes don't. they are a law unto themselves.

[Natasha, Midlands]

I know it has not happened yet but after a appeal where else can you go within Royal Mail? Don't seem to be getting much answers on here? They will defo dish something out on me after been suspended for 3 weeks now if not sacked. with having a good record I think they may reduce it to 2 year serious where I shouldn't be getting anything because of the lies...

Appeal stage is the final thing you can do within Royal Mail. Your next decision is whether to take this to an employment tribunal. You should be aware that if you are going to go to tribunal then there are time constraints related to the period in which you can apply. If you have to go to appeal then I suggest that you apply for this before the Appeal is heard. It is a Royal Mail trait that they delay the appeal process for as long as possible in the hope that you will not submit a claim form to the ET and will be out of time applying. If you get a decision that goes against you, submit the claim for ET at the same time as you submit an Appeal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I was given a 2 year serious warning I can still take that to a Employment Tribunal? I know I am 100% not guilty and I now have a witness as such... Thanks for the information BTW and General Manningham...

[krussel]

I always thought that ET was for dismissal only ?

You have not said what your rep or area rep is doing about this ? Are you in the CWU ?

If you can get a rep involved they will look into the managers prev history. You could find that he may have any number of previous harassment cases or none. This is why you need help from your rep.

As fish said don't get bogged down in smaller details but concentrate on building your case starting with your own witness.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I always thought that ET was for dismissal only ?.

Nope: http://www.justice.gov.uk/tribunals/emp ... risdiction" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Examples:



Suffered less favourable treatment and/or dismissal as a fixed term employee, than a full time employee or, on becoming permanent, failed to receive a written statement of confirmation from employer

Failure to allow time off or pay for trade union activities or duties, learning representative duties, for public duties or ante natal care

Failure to allow time off to seek work during a redundancy situation

reference to determine the particulars that should be included in a written pay statement or an adequate pay statement

Failure of the employer to comply with a certificate of exemption or to deduct funds from employees pay in order to contribute to a trade union political fund

Failure of employer to pay or unauthorised deductions have been made

Failure to limit weekly or night working time, or to ensure rest breaks

[Natasha, Midlands]

I always thought that ET was for dismissal only ?

You have not said what your rep or area rep is doing about this ? Are you in the CWU ?

If you can get a rep involved they will look into the managers prev history. You could find that he may have any number of previous harassment cases or none. This is why you need help from your rep.

As fish said don't get bogged down in smaller details but concentrate on building your case starting with your own witness.

Am waiting for hearing date now, I am in the CWU but my rep has basically said if we save your job and I get a 2 year serious I will be fine with that, its not about a 2 year and still have a job I want it kicking out because I have 110% evidence now i done nothing wrong. They will have a hold on me that way so that's why I am asking can I still take it to ET if a 2 year is forced on me...

[thebiggestman]

Am waiting for hearing date now, I am in the CWU but my rep has basically said if we save your job and I get a 2 year serious I will be fine with that, its not about a 2 year and still have a job I want it kicking out because I have 110% evidence now i done nothing wrong. They will have a hold on me that way so that's why I am asking can I still take it to ET if a 2 year is forced on me...

An ET is not a platform for you to re try your case, moreover to see if there were any errors in Employment rights when dismissing (or other penalty). That is we're you given a fact finding , a conduct interview and an appeal. There is where you make your mitigation and put forward your witnesses. An ET will only be interested in any discrepancies in these interviews. Equally an employer only has to have reasonable belief and the can penalise. You appear to believe they are doing a hatchet job on you, that is what I am getting from your posts. I done nothing wrong is not a defence start being honest with yourself and look at how you will counteract their evidence.

Also remember to go to an ET now costs between £900 and £1200 and the Union only take on winnable cases so you may havec to find the money

[Lounge Lizard]

Natasha,
We all wish you well on this but surely it's simply a question of whether or not you can disprove the accusation of "intimidating and aggressive behaviour" when you said you would be going sick the next week.
The DOM says you were intimidating and aggressive, you say you weren't but what witnesses to the incident were there and do you have favourable statements from any such witnesses ?

[bogstandard]

I know it has not happened yet but after a appeal where else can you go within Royal Mail? Don't seem to be getting much answers on here? They will defo dish something out on me after been suspended for 3 weeks now if not sacked. with having a good record I think they may reduce it to 2 year serious where I shouldn't be getting anything because of the lies...

Appeal stage is the final thing you can do within Royal Mail. Your next decision is whether to take this to an employment tribunal. You should be aware that if you are going to go to tribunal then there are time constraints related to the period in which you can apply. If you have to go to appeal then I suggest that you apply for this before the Appeal is heard. It is a Royal Mail trait that they delay the appeal process for as long as possible in the hope that you will not submit a claim form to the ET and will be out of time applying. If you get a decision that goes against you, submit the claim for ET at the same time as you submit an Appeal.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if I was given a 2 year serious warning I can still take that to a Employment Tribunal? I know I am 100% not guilty and I now have a witness as such... Thanks for the information BTW and General Manningham...

Get your witness to write a statement, DO NOT rely on RM to interview them you need to.
It IS acceptable as it form part of your mitigating circumstances. I know Mitigating circumstances sounds like you're asking for fogiveness but it just forms part of the defence.