Todays CWU email regarding holiday pay for O/T

[Dalelad]

As I understand, if this ruling goes through, we will be owed holiday pay for all O/T worked. Great news if you've hammered the O/T to make your hours up, like myself. But with me finishing on Saturday and cancelling my union subscription, would I have a problem claiming whats owed me if i'm nolonger a Royal Mail employee? I've kept every single wage slip from the day I started.

[dvb077]

what do you mean by this? holiday pay overtime?

[Dalelad]

what do you mean by this? holiday pay overtime?

Email copied and pasted for your perusal


To: All Branches with Postal Members

Dear Colleague


WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE – HOLIDAY PAY


In recent months the Union has been monitoring the developing legal situation on how holiday pay should be calculated in line with the Working Time Directive.


This involves three very significant Employment Tribunal cases in non CWU companies which have cast doubt over how an employer is required to calculate holiday pay under the European Working Time Directive. A previous decision that has stood since 2004, held that adhoc overtime did not need to be included in the calculation. However, this has now been contradicted both directly and indirectly in recent cases and the ET decisions in the three aforementioned cases have ruled that ad hoc overtime should now be included.


Although these ET decisions are not yet binding, the legal advice received from our lawyers suggests that ultimately, this is likely, though not certain, to be confirmed as the correct interpretation of this particular Working Time Directive.


These decisions could have very significant implications and may mean that for any holiday taken since 1998, current Royal Mail employees may have a legitimate legal claim against the company to up to four weeks worth of overtime payments (the directive only covers a four week holiday period) each year. A further issue that needs to be resolved legally is what reference period should be used for how any entitlement should be calculated.


As you can imagine employers across the UK have been strongly lobbying against this interpretation of the directive and the CBI are claiming that this would have a major detrimental effect on the ability of British companies to remain competitive.




The current position is that two of these recent ET decisions are being appealed against by employers and these appeals are pending. Additionally, a third case brought by a transport employee has been settled outside of the tribunal and we are trying to establish the basis of this settlement.


The whole subject matter is a very live issue and we can confirm that CWU has now lodged a formal claim for both future entitlements and back pay with the Royal Mail Group on behalf of all CWU members working for the company.


Following initial discussions with Royal Mail under the auspices of Bobby Weatherall PEC Member, who has been diligently following developments for the Union, we have now arranged a meeting with the company’s senior management team to discuss the basis of our claim and try to reach a settlement. Additionally, we are continuing to discuss with our lawyers the best way to protect the legal position of CWU Members, if necessary through the Employment Tribunal.


Further information will be sent out in the near future following our next meeting with the company. In the meantime, it is important that all CWU branches and representatives circulate the content of this LTB and convey the Union’s position to our members in all work places.


Any enquiries on the content of this LTB should be addressed to the DGS(P) Department, quoting reference 60000.


Yours sincerely



Dave Ward
Deputy General Secretary (P)

[korky]

what do you mean by this? holiday pay overtime?

search this site, there's already a few threads

in laymans terms, say you usually work 39 hrs p/w but contracted to 34
when on a/l you get paid 34 not your average over i believe to be the previous 13 weeks, this is normal for a lot of companies, even my other half who works for the council gets paid her average.
RM will probably be cacking their pants if they had to backdate payments due to the massive amount of p/t staff the employ and will probably cut a deal so every employee gets a £100 waiver,
pro rata of course

as for claiming if you no longer work for the company that'll open another can of worms which you'll probably end up claiming yourself and the no win no fee brigade will clean up

[goona]

Who thinks this would be a good time to ' short ' RM shares ?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Who thinks this would be a good time to ' short ' RM shares ?

Not me - this risk has been known about for months and any good buyer will have already calculated the effect.

[rubberbond]

Who thinks this would be a good time to ' short ' RM shares ?

Not me - this risk has been known about for months and any good buyer will have already calculated the effect.

If that is the case ,why wasn't it mentioned before the flotation, like the threat of industrial strife was? I don't recall any such warning to potential investors that this was going to be an issue. Maybe I missed it and you can enlighten me.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Who thinks this would be a good time to ' short ' RM shares ?

Not me - this risk has been known about for months and any good buyer will have already calculated the effect.

If that is the case ,why wasn't it mentioned before the flotation, like the potential strike.

because the specific risk wasn't there then, but the prospectus did have a general warning:

Changes to laws and regulations relating to employment (including the interpretation and enforcement of
those laws and regulations) could have a material adverse effect on the Group, its results of operations,
financial condition and prospects. In particular, changes in this area could, directly or indirectly, increase the
Group’s employment costs, which, given the size of the Group’s workforce, could have a material adverse
effect on the Group, its profitability and financial condition

[TrueBlueTerrier]

and anyway anyone who can "Short" Royal Mail shares is probably not working as a Postman, its a risky and legally quite complicated process.

[rubberbond]

Who thinks this would be a good time to ' short ' RM shares ?

Not me - this risk has been known about for months and any good buyer will have already calculated the effect.

If that is the case ,why wasn't it mentioned before the flotation, like the potential strike.

because the specific risk wasn't there then, but the prospectus did have a general warning:

Changes to laws and regulations relating to employment (including the interpretation and enforcement of
those laws and regulations) could have a material adverse effect on the Group, its results of operations,
financial condition and prospects. In particular, changes in this area could, directly or indirectly, increase the
Group’s employment costs, which, given the size of the Group’s workforce, could have a material adverse
effect on the Group, its profitability and financial condition

Okay, fair enough but that is just standard phraseology , like for example on employment contracts , that state "any other duties commensurate with the position " or ASDO ,as they call it. It doesn't mean anything , until they ask you to sweep the floor. We shall see.

[goona]

and anyway anyone who can "Short" Royal Mail shares is probably not working as a Postman, its a risky and legally quite complicated process.

Was meaning on the Plus 500 demo account. One of the advertisers on RMC.

Done nearly 30 years as a Postman TBT so just trying to educate myself for life after Royal Mail
which by the way things are going will not be too much longer.

[on_the_way_OUT]

So in practical terms for those that have done plenty of OT is there a bit of money coming our way and if so how much would a ballpark figure be and when are we likely to get it?
Cheers

[cinemasaint]

Backdated how long though? As I've did a power off o/t to make my hours up to full time, but come holidays it's a basic pay I get

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Backdated how long though?

The details are unknown such as how far backdated, what the qualifying period is (ie over 12 weeks for the average to be calculated), and even if RM or the Government are going to pay it are unknown as the judgement has not yet been given.

So in practical terms for those that have done plenty of OT is there a bit of money coming our way and if so how much would a ballpark figure be and when are we likely to get it?
Cheers

No Ballpark and no certainty that we will get anything even when a judgement is made, it might not go our way.

[Patrick301]

its like the councils had to pay out millions to woman who done the same job as men on lesser pay
court said it was illegal so they had to pay out
same will happen to royal mail and it will cripple them ,
to compete with TNT we will have to accept the same pay and working practices as them
how long did they say terms and conditions were to be protected