Stage 3 advice needed

[johnojones]

I have been employed by RM for 3 1/2 years, my 1st and 2nd stages were issued with time off from accidents on duty.Nothing serious but triggered the stages and although i did not agree with them I was told by my Line Manager he had no choice or discrepency on it, could not appeal, so accepted.Walking on tightrope ever since.Had all usual harrassment and bullying etc that seems to come with this company but have managed to survive so far,but nearly threw the towel in last year after being subjected to verbal abuse by LM after refusing to work my rest day.I had to take time off with stress.It took 6 months for RM to arrange a meeting and in September 2013 with a 5th new DOM, new line managers and my union rep, was given assurances that things were to be different and i would be treated more fairly basically.Clean slate, new start.
Had 3 seperate 1 day absences since my return in September 2013 to June 2014 and I had a word in my ear from my LM on return that this had triggered the inevitable Stage 3 and i would be getting a call from Atos.
A phone interview with OH assist was made for 18th June 2014, i asked management for an attendance record in advance but alas I didn't get one.The interviewer was not happy that i had not been advised as to why i was being considered for dismissal or that procedures had not been followed but i offered to take the interview anyway.I had questions dating back to March 2012, 2 years ago.Hard to remember without paperwork etc, but got there eventually.
Seemed to pass the test as doc said that in his professional opinion i was fit and able to work and off record was miffed as to why i was where i am.

My question is that i have not been called in for any meeting in relation to the interview and was wandering what the timescale is (if there is one) and what i should be prepared for ? I received my copy of the report the following day btw.
The only thing i have had is when the DOM passed me in a coridoor a week after and asked if i had had my interview (atos) yet ?
This seemed odd to say the least, especially if the interview had gone bad ! I replied that i had, and he said he hadn't heard anything.
And i have heard nothing about it since.

Any help & advice greatly appreciated,thanks,John.

[gluteus maximus]

It is my understanding that accidents on duty do not trigger an attendence review. They can record the absence but take no further action.

Were these accidents on duty recorded in the accident repoting procedure. I believe it is called the ERICA

[rehabron]

I have been employed by RM for 3 1/2 years, my 1st and 2nd stages were issued with time off from accidents on duty.Nothing serious but triggered the stages and although i did not agree with them I was told by my Line Manager he had no choice or discrepency on it, could not appeal, so accepted.Walking on tightrope ever since.Had all usual harrassment and bullying etc that seems to come with this company but have managed to survive so far,but nearly threw the towel in last year after being subjected to verbal abuse by LM after refusing to work my rest day.I had to take time off with stress.It took 6 months for RM to arrange a meeting and in September 2013 with a 5th new DOM, new line managers and my union rep, was given assurances that things were to be different and i would be treated more fairly basically.Clean slate, new start.
Had 3 seperate 1 day absences since my return in September 2013 to June 2014 and I had a word in my ear from my LM on return that this had triggered the inevitable Stage 3 and i would be getting a call from Atos.
A phone interview with OH assist was made for 18th June 2014, i asked management for an attendance record in advance but alas I didn't get one.The interviewer was not happy that i had not been advised as to why i was being considered for dismissal or that procedures had not been followed but i offered to take the interview anyway.I had questions dating back to March 2012, 2 years ago.Hard to remember without paperwork etc, but got there eventually.
Seemed to pass the test as doc said that in his professional opinion i was fit and able to work and off record was miffed as to why i was where i am.

My question is that i have not been called in for any meeting in relation to the interview and was wandering what the timescale is (if there is one) and what i should be prepared for ? I received my copy of the report the following day btw.
The only thing i have had is when the DOM passed me in a coridoor a week after and asked if i had had my interview (atos) yet ?
This seemed odd to say the least, especially if the interview had gone bad ! I replied that i had, and he said he hadn't heard anything.
And i have heard nothing about it since.

Any help & advice greatly appreciated,thanks,John.

Your 1st stage absence would have been triggered if you had exceeded 4 absences or 14 days but as you have stated this should have been discounted as per the attendance agreement as this was due to an accident at work and trust that this was recorded in the works accident book and the necessary forms completed.
Your 2nd stage formal absence review has exceeded 2 absences or 10 days which as you have also stated was due to an accident at work. As I have already been corrected by a regular poster to RMC this does not necessary mean that your second accident will be discounted if the accident is similar to your first accident at work and you have not learned by your previous experience.
The attendance agreement states " that accidents at work WILL NORMALLY be discounted but will be under review at the BTW interview.
You mention after meetings in September 2013 with new management and with your reps assurance you was to be given a " clean slate new start" . Did you have this in writing that the slate was to be wiped clean?
From September 2013 to June 2014 you then had 3 X 1 day absences and you have now been informed that you have triggered a 3rd stage formal absence review and consideration of dismissal.
Taking into account that the slate may not have been wiped clean then your 1st stage should have been discounted then making your 2nd stage AOD then dependant on the review would revert to a 1st stage.
Thereafter you had 3 separate absences of 1 day and 2 of then would have triggered the 2nd stage formal absence review thus leaving you 1 absence of 1 day which would not have triggered a 3rd stage and furthermore if between September 2013 and June 2014 you managed to meet the required standard set by RM in the 6 month period then a stage 3 has not been triggered.
You need to consult your union rep on the conditions of your absenteeism and request a copy of your record of absenteeism which is your right before ant meeting with your DOM is arranged.
Forearmed is forewarned.

[clashcityrocker]

You mention after meetings in September 2013 with new management and with your reps assurance you was to be given a " clean slate new start" . Did you have this in writing that the slate was to be wiped clean?

The clean slate probably didn't refer to his attendance record but more probably the deterioration in relations between him and management. Let bygones be bygones and all that.
The stages were issued. No mitigation was offered/given/accepted for them being AODs.
Stage 3 is a possible dismissal. He needs an Area Rep in attendance at least because now it has to be argued that the first stage shouldn't have been issued or it is P45 time.

[rehabron]

You mention after meetings in September 2013 with new management and with your reps assurance you was to be given a " clean slate new start" . Did you have this in writing that the slate was to be wiped clean?

The clean slate probably didn't refer to his attendance record but more probably the deterioration in relations between him and management. Let bygones be bygones and all that.
The stages were issued. No mitigation was offered/given/accepted for them being AODs.
Stage 3 is a possible dismissal. He needs an Area Rep in attendance at least because now it has to be argued that the first stage shouldn't have been issued or it is P45 time.

In total agreement the first stage needs to be argued and if unsuccessful at first attempt needs to be further argued at appeal stage.

[johnojones]

rehabron has hit the nail on the head.
I agree entirely on those comments.Clean slate obviously meant with them.Forget all the previous, by hook or by crook i am on stage 3 now.
The thing is how long should i wait to be called in concerning this stage 3 process, as the phone interview was taken on the 18th June ? Is it normal for it to be this long ? Or is it not long at all ?
I have been assured that an area union rep will be in attendance.

[johnojones]

It's ok, I got my a letter today for an interview to consider dismissal for next week.
Complete with stage 1 docs but no stage 2, plus my attendance/absence record.

[elias]

It's ok, I got my a letter today for an interview to consider dismissal for next week.
Complete with stage 1 docs but no stage 2, plus my attendance/absence record.

You should have received stage 2 paperwork too, that is part of the process to enable you to be fully conversant with all the facts prior to the interview and to enable you to put forward mitigation as to why you should not be dismissed. AOD's can be discounted from attendance procedure if you were found to be culpable for them but if that was the case then you should have received a letter after the AODs informing you of that. I would advise you either turn up for the interview and ask for it to be adjourned due to not being given stage 2 paperwork or probably better inform DOM now as you no doubt do not want this hanging over you any longer than necessary.

[johnojones]

Had interview this morning and it got thrown out.Irregularities and so forth.Was apparently issued with a stage 2 on 3rd Jan this year ??? My attendance record shows an abscence in October, March and June.Also the person who was supposed to "issue " me with it was the ex PA to the DOM.Never happened, no paperwork either.All a bit odd.
Anyhows the DOM said that it appears i should not be on a stage 3 and has put me back to a stage 1.
A result they said. When you consider that my stage 1 was in July 2012 you would think i would be off the procedure altogether.
The DOM advised me that if I didn't have so many days off i would not have triggered the review
.3 single days since September. That's 3 days in approx 9 months.Hard to work these things out, but if i keep a clean sheet from now to December then the stage 1 will be removed too.Happy days.
Comply Or Die -
The Right

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

It is my understanding that accidents on duty do not trigger an attendence review. They can record the absence but take no further action.

Were these accidents on duty recorded in the accident repoting procedure. I believe it is called the ERICA

Not quite correct, they should not be counted, not will not

[TrueBlueTerrier]

To be really picky, I thought an AOD can trigger a review. But the review should then discount the AOD.

[johnojones]

I agree that an AOD MAY be counted towards a stage but mitigating circumstances CONSIDERED when the time comes further down the line.
In the notes on my stage 1 after the AOD, my reason for nearly breaking my ankle from a fall from a customers' doorstep was that i found it difficult to complete my delivery in the specified hours, and that 25 hours was not sufficient for the task ( nothing was ever thrown in.) Thus, as i was rushing to finish in time inevitably i sustained an injury. it stated under the recomendations that i would be shadowed and observed to make sure that i was following correct delivery procedures and any help and guidance would be given.Of course this never happenned. Fail.
But i do not rush anymore, i learnt my lesson.Like many other new starters I never got my o/t. after the first 3 months it was 19 & 1/2 hours, and this did not take into account my mealbreak as i never realised I was entitled to one !!
I never got the money,so i joined the union and cut off with full backing.This is frowned upon hence the reason for all the hassle i get from the backlash.What gets my goat is that after 3 years other posties have been made up to 30 hours and some are now full time, and our office has yet to be moved onto the transition yet.These same posties started after me. It's totally unfair.
Add to that the shambolic stage 3 scenario and it stinks.
The stage 3 ended up in the reps office with just myself the rep and the DOM, as no stage 2 evidence was to be found it could not go ahead So because of this i get no written result, apology or explanation as nobody took any minutes.
It was done behind closed doors.
The AOD wasn't even mentioned, nor the doctors summary that he deemed me fit and able to work,but i could have had the chance to have it reviewed if the stage 3 had gone ahead properly.All i got out of it is that i am back to a stage 1 and can consider myself lucky, and thanks for coming.
I really feel i should go for a grieveince but there are so many reasons to put one in that i don't know which way to go forward.

[knockknock75]

I have been with RM for 14 and half years for the last 6 months I have had really bad pain in my left knee I then went off work for 5 months getting sick lines from my Doctors I came back in June for 2 days but struggled with light duties then went off till 2 weeks ago on a rehab program starting with 4 hours then going up a hour every week but have struggled with this. I am getting a MRI scan on the 10th of September. I have just received a Attendance Process Letter it say I have fallen below the RMG attendance standards possible consideration of dismissal. Feels very like I'm get forced into a corner do I consider IHR when ATOS contacts me. please help me

[TrueBlueTerrier]

if you are in the Union contact your Area Delivery Rep, they normally handle stage 3s. The good news is that dismissal for a first stage 3 is unusual.

IHR would be a separate issue and only you can make the decision to accept or appeal against it if that's what OH Assist recommend to your DOM.

[She Raa]

Their is no stage 3, it is C.O.D.

Consideration Of Dismissal