Revision: seniority

[enskied]

Two guys started the same day /year. Dom has given the duty to the pet and stated that it came down to "sick leave taken". Was pointed out that the lapdog has much more recent sick...Dom says " from the time they started." We are talking 12 years ago or more. Not my business really, but should I flag this to Area rep? Was always decided amicably by tossing a coin before.

[Deadly]

I was told it was decided by date of birth, the oldest gets first choice. Not sure how true it is.

[shepherdess]

true

[enskied]

Has to be based on length of service in RM nothing else surely ? Can't mix seniority and suitability as it's discriminatory by nature.

[enskied]

I was told it was decided by date of birth, the oldest gets first choice. Not sure how true it is.

Age discrimination is illegal

[PhilthyPhil]

RM Pay Directive 8/2000

3. COMMENCING EMPLOYMENT ON THE SAME DAY
Where several employees have the same length of service (as defined above), the
agreement provides for seniority to be determined in the following order: firstly, any periods
of Post Office service on other grades (i.e. longest total PO service first), secondly, date of
selection (i.e. earliest date first) and thirdly, date of birth (i.e. oldest first). For employees
recruited since the date of the agreement (14 February 2000), “date of selection” will be
defined as follows: firstly date of the letter offering employment (earliest first), if still equal
then date of interview (earliest first), if still equal then date of test (earliest first). If then still
equal then the third “date of birth” criterion is considered as above.

For employees recruited before 14 February 2000, it will not be practicable to re-visit records
of recruitment processes that took place in some cases many years previously. Therefore,
purely as a one-off exercise used only to separate employees with exactly the same length
of service, the date of selection and date of birth criteria above will be replaced with: firstly,
existing substantive grade (highest first), if still equal then position on existing locally agreed
seniority list (highest first). In applying this last criteria the local seniority list must be one
that conforms with the previous national agreement, and in particular one where the
provisions of the part-time harmonisation agreement have been fully applied. Where
employees are added into an existing list (e.g. following transfer) where there are already
other employees who started on the same day, every effort should be made to apply the
date of selection criterion to determine a placing. Where this is not possible then date of
birth should be used.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I was told it was decided by date of birth, the oldest gets first choice. Not sure how true it is.

Age discrimination is illegal

Yes but using Birth date as a final, though not primary, method of selection has not yet been tested in an ET, and according to ACAS age can be used as a determining factor if: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This treatment can only be justified if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim which means it must be appropriate and necessary, (economic factors such as business needs and efficiency may be legitimate aims).

So as long as its proportionate, appropriate and necessary it may be quite legal and above board.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Has to be based on length of service in RM nothing else surely ? Can't mix seniority and suitability as it's discriminatory by nature.

Suitability and seniority is exactly how jobs resourced by selection by skills happens, most senior suitable candidate gets the jobs

[enskied]

RM Pay Directive 8/2000

3. COMMENCING EMPLOYMENT ON THE SAME DAY
Where several employees have the same length of service (as defined above), the
agreement provides for seniority to be determined in the following order: firstly, any periods
of Post Office service on other grades (i.e. longest total PO service first), secondly, date of
selection (i.e. earliest date first) and thirdly, date of birth (i.e. oldest first). For employees
recruited since the date of the agreement (14 February 2000), “date of selection” will be
defined as follows: firstly date of the letter offering employment (earliest first), if still equal
then date of interview (earliest first), if still equal then date of test (earliest first). If then still
equal then the third “date of birth” criterion is considered as above.

For employees recruited before 14 February 2000, it will not be practicable to re-visit records
of recruitment processes that took place in some cases many years previously. Therefore,
purely as a one-off exercise used only to separate employees with exactly the same length
of service, the date of selection and date of birth criteria above will be replaced with: firstly,
existing substantive grade (highest first), if still equal then position on existing locally agreed
seniority list (highest first). In applying this last criteria the local seniority list must be one
that conforms with the previous national agreement, and in particular one where the
provisions of the part-time harmonisation agreement have been fully applied. Where
employees are added into an existing list (e.g. following transfer) where there are already
other employees who started on the same day, every effort should be made to apply the
date of selection criterion to determine a placing. Where this is not possible then date of
birth should be used.

Thanks, This is useful.

[Kobi72]

Seniority is bloody outdated..as a majority of Royal Mail is..been here 2 years now & it's the worst run company ever,never known so many people take the piss..just stating the truth!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Seniority is bloody outdated..as a majority of Royal Mail is..been here 2 years now & it's the worst run company ever,never known so many people take the piss..just stating the truth!

it may be outdated, but at least its transparent, if any other way you would get DOMs pets getting all the best rounds, callers office jobs etc

[coxie]

It goes on seniority, if 2 people start on the same day then any post office service will determine who is higher, if there's no post office service then the older person will be be the more senior.

[coxie]

From the way forward agreement which has no newer measures in place and cannot be overruled by local agreement. Shove this under your doms nose.

13.9 Where several employees start on the same day, the following factors will determine the relative order: firstly, any periods of Post Office service on other grades, secondly, date of selection and, thirdly, date of birth.

[Bahia Feliz]

Seniority is bloody outdated, been here 2 years now

Ha ha another junior moaning about seniority!

[mickh2423]

Whether he is a "junior" or not, he is a postman as are you. With more and more revisions taking place and all walks and finish times being more or less equal,
do you think someones seniority still brings privileges and do Royal Mail consider it to be important ?