bosses believe the bully!!

[arthur was right]

Been charged with gross misconduct. I had an altercation with a college at work.
From the minute I walked in he was hostile and downright nasty. It ended up with him
swearing at me for forgetting to put a parcel in the right loop. At this I swore back and told
him to back off. He reported me to a manager saying that I had threatened to beat him up!!
This is totally false!! There were no witnesses to this altercation and its his word against mine.
To be honest I have a reputation for telling it like it is. His statement was littered with lies!
The mangers dislike me because I only work to my time and sometimes leave lapsing etc.
They have decided to believe his version and it looks like there gonna use any excuse to get
rid.... all because I only want to do the job as it should be done and stand up to bullying

[NWpostie]

First and foremost, get the Union in, I'm sure this bully probably have rubbed other people up the wrong way at your work location, if going by type.
have witness present at the interview, DON'T go in alone !!

[Himaggen]

The first stage of the Bullying and Harassment Procedure, regardless of whether it was reported through the B&H helpline or directly through a Manager is to locally attempt to bring both parties together to find a solution. It is not to take one parties word against another's with no witnesses to corroborate either story and abuse the Conduct Code Procedure.

[gluteus maximus]

Threatened to beat up an individual is treated the same as actual physical contact. This has now moved one step above the normal B&H procedure as it has gone beyond words.

Saying that, get them to shake hands and move forward is obviously the better option, failing that the business has a legal obligation for the welfare of all staff, that includes emotional wellbeing against a perceived bully

[Himaggen]

The first stage therefore would be to undertake fact finding interviews with each party and probably 'Precautionary Suspend' the person until such time as the true facts can be verified. If there are two parties an no witnesses then it would be completely wrong to take one persons word over another's for the purposes of Gross Misconduct. Otherwise what would there be to stop any employee with malicious intent from making up a similar story about another employee.

[rehabron]

The first stage therefore would be to undertake fact finding interviews with each party and probably 'Precautionary Suspend' the person until such time as the true facts can be verified. If there are two parties an no witnesses then it would be completely wrong to take one persons word over another's for the purposes of Gross Misconduct. Otherwise what would there be to stop any employee with malicious intent from making up a similar story about another employee.

Agree with " Himaggen" posting before any charges were issued the manager should have conducted a fact-finding interview with both parties to establish the facts.
If after completing FF interview and depending on what was said the manager has a decision to make if it was established that there was the intent of threatening behaviour then he should have made the decision to precautionary suspend both of you as a safeguard to your work colleagues.
Failing to precautionary suspend both of you is in your favour as he feels that you are not a danger to other work colleagues and therefore the charge of gross misconduct does not apply. Furthermore as you have stated that there are no witnesses to this altercation and basically your word against his then the charge of gross misconduct will not hold water.
I would show your letter detailing the charge to your union rep and get this followed up with a 2nd stage grievance. This will not stop the conduct interview but can run in conjunction with.
Guiding Principles in Conduct Code: NO CHARGES WILL BE MADE UNTIL SUFFICIENT FACTS OF THE CASE HAVE BEEN DETERMINED.
Going by your posting this seems not to be the case.

[arthur was right]

There has been a fact finding interview with both parties... they have suspended me [two months and counting] and allowed him to continue.
The union has a copy of statements but ive heard nothing since a week or so from cwu. I have totally denied the allegations
but I think due to the fact of managers disliking me they want me out. Its shameful

[hantsman]

There has been a fact finding interview with both parties... they have suspended me [two months and counting] and allowed him to continue.
The union has a copy of statements but ive heard nothing since a week or so from cwu. I have totally denied the allegations
but I think due to the fact of managers disliking me they want me out. Its shameful

Are you on full pay?

[rehabron]

There has been a fact finding interview with both parties... they have suspended me [two months and counting] and allowed him to continue.
The union has a copy of statements but ive heard nothing since a week or so from cwu. I have totally denied the allegations
but I think due to the fact of managers disliking me they want me out. Its shameful

Thanks for elaborating further on your original posting because you did not mention that you had a FF meeting and that you are currently suspended.
In relation to the suspension this will be on full pay and I trust that your suspension is over 2 months you have been receiving written notification at regular intervals from RM that your suspension is continuing with appropriate dates if not then this can be construed as a dismissal and prejudiced your case.
Are you positive that there are no witness statements to your altercation because if this goes to a higher level of authority at your disciplinary hearing which I would expect it to then without supporting witness statements as to the incident it will get thrown out or put back to the line manger for further investigation.
You have a right to contact your union official while on suspension and you need to do this and request a copy of the statements.
You state that union has a " copy of statements" I hope you mean by statements that means yours and the other party and there are no other additional statements from other sources.

[arthur was right]

im still getting payed... ive received one "we are still investigating alleged incident of aggressive and threatening behaviour letter and you will remain suspended until its investigated and they also sent me a letter saying that I had been suspended for racist comments... I informed cwu about this and Royal mail replied that a manager had sent this letter to me by mistake.. its disgusting.. like I have stated they want rid of me for standing up to bullies... I have a formal conduct interview on Wednesday regarding aggressive and threatening behaviour ...although I swore back at him I wouldn't dream of threatening to beat some one up!!!

[Jamesethefirst]

There has been a fact finding interview with both parties... they have suspended me [two months and counting] and allowed him to continue.
The union has a copy of statements but ive heard nothing since a week or so from cwu. I have totally denied the allegations
but I think due to the fact of managers disliking me they want me out. Its shameful

Are you on full pay?

Suspension has to be paid. It also has to be "reviewed at regular intervals"and "should last only as long as necessary" , although this is not qualified,two months seems an awfully long time,without having a hearing. Lazy management.

[rehabron]

im still getting payed... ive received one "we are still investigating alleged incident of aggressive and threatening behaviour letter and you will remain suspended until its investigated and they also sent me a letter saying that I had been suspended for racist comments... I informed cwu about this and Royal mail replied that a manager had sent this letter to me by mistake.. its disgusting.. like I have stated they want rid of me for standing up to bullies... I have a formal conduct interview on Wednesday regarding aggressive and threatening behaviour ...although I swore back at him I wouldn't dream of threatening to beat some one up!!!

By sending you a letter in regards to your suspension stating " racist comments" which is totally unconnected with your case and has been admitted as a mistake is in your favour and needs to be brought up at the formal interview regarding manager's incompetence.
It is irrelevant that you feel that manager dislikes you and has no basis at a disciplinary hearing which is judged on facts and the merits of the case and that there is beyond reasonable doubt sufficient evidence to support the charge.
Failing that as I have previously stated and you are positive that there are no other statements available then the charge of gross misconduct is flawed and if the manager taking the formal conduct interview upholds the charge of gross misconduct then you take to appeal stage and thereafter to an ET which under the band of reasonable responses you case would be likely to succeed.

[gluteus maximus]

Has anyone asked how long he has been employed for???

[rick184]

Rehabron ....... This is employment law and the test is 'on balance of probability' not 'evidence beyond reasonable doubt' which is the criminal test. Law requires the employer to carry out a reasonable investigation and make a decision based on genuine belief.

[Postie45]

Rehabron ....... This is employment law and the test is 'on balance of probability' not 'evidence beyond reasonable doubt' which is the criminal test. Law requires the employer to carry out a reasonable investigation and make a decision based on genuine belief.

what is the balance of probability in this case - surely 50% one mans word against another ? No other witnesses so I dont see how it can be taken any further. The only thing they could do is make sure the 2 dont work together anymore. The fact that the manager has used some bias to suspend one and not the other is in no way a justification to say that the OP is actually guilty of what is claimed.
In what argument situation does one participant begin with "im going to kick your arse" or words to that affect, no, this language evolves from a heated exchange between 2 people. Who knows what else was said back and forth, the OP suggests swearing. Without any other evidence or witnesses we have to presume that this is actually what happened and they are both to "blame". Maybe a slap on the wrist to both and some training about working together in the workplace better.