Seniority is all wrong....

[tansorboy]

I think new starters should get their own rounds and the experienced, time-served people should be the floaters/reserves.
That way, we should all finish around the same time. People with 25plus years who can prep and deliver their rounds blind-folded have loads of time to spare, while recent starters struggle with both, but are reluctant to book overtime because of peer pressure, i.e.jeers from their senior "colleagues", which is a form of bullying.

[Gold Fox]

No bullying ....senior staff had same treatment when they started ... different deliveries and even all sort of shifts too. You start at 6 or 7am now ... we used to start at 0430am ... yes those were the days, two deliveries a day and box collection after first delivery .... you never had so good ..new starters.

[Cut Off King]

No bullying ....senior staff had same treatment when they started ... different deliveries and even all sort of shifts too. You start at 6 or 7am now ... we used to start at 0430am ... yes those were the days, two deliveries a day and box collection after first delivery .... you never had so good ..new starters.

Don't forget split shifts too

[spiderj]

Seniority=bullying by another form

[wannabeek]

I don't think it's as simple as you say in the OP. The 'old-timers' can only prep the duty so fast because it's the only one they do, and often have only done for years. Put them on floating rounds or as reserves and they'd probably be no faster than someone been in the job only a few months, so you'd be back in the same situation again.

Personally I hate doing the same duty for more than a week or two, just gets too boring IMO walking the same streets, noticing that no 14 has changed their curtains... ooh Mr Jones hasn't put his bin out this week again... Ah, I knew Mrs Green wouldn't stay single for long... Surely that can't be a bailiff letter for the Wilkinsons?! Etc, etc.

Must sound like fun to a lot of people though, i suppose, why else would anyone want a fixed duty?

*edit: I just remembered something brand new and totally unexpected from my first 6 weeks on the same duty when I started the job - I got to watch a dead duck slowly decompose in someone's front garden. Fascinating.

[OnAFlyer]

I think new starters should get their own rounds and the experienced, time-served people should be the floaters/reserves.
That way, we should all finish around the same time. People with 25plus years who can prep and deliver their rounds blind-folded have loads of time to spare, while recent starters struggle with both, but are reluctant to book overtime because of peer pressure, i.e.jeers from their senior "colleagues", which is a form of bullying.

How long have you been on the job? Not long I'll guess.

In my office the ones that are any good pick it up pretty quickly, the clowns remain clowns whether they've been in the job 6 weeks or 6 years.

[Judgee]

I think new starters should get their own rounds and the experienced, time-served people should be the floaters/reserves.
That way, we should all finish around the same time. People with 25plus years who can prep and deliver their rounds blind-folded have loads of time to spare, while recent starters struggle with both, but are reluctant to book overtime because of peer pressure, i.e.jeers from their senior "colleagues", which is a form of bullying.

What complete tosh! We all were new starters once why should people go back to being floaters/reserves just because the new generation can do nothing but complain about how hard done by they all are. They are the victim generation, always moaning. Man up and get on with it, your time will come.... til then put in the time and earn your walk like we all had to do!

[Sidley]

Pointing out the enormous holes in the OPs logic is tantamount to bullying. I don't know how you time served poster boys of privilege can sleep at night. For shame...

[clashcityrocker]

When the old-timers started, the deliveries were much much smaller.
If you had a 2 hour delivery and went over by 50% it was still only 3 hours.
If the same scenario plays out now, a 4 hour delivery + 50% is a 6 hour delivery. That is beyond most people's physical capabilities, especially if the newstart isn't used to physical work.
And of course we all know that what takes up time out on delivery is knocking on doors for packets and in the old days you had very few.
Very few Registered letters and no PDA. And no Tracked.

And what did we used to get - 3 hours o/t for a second delivery that consisted of 4 letters.

The job has changed. The training and induction needs to change as well and although there are some well intentioned documents, most offices are full of the same old s**t - we had it tough so why shouldn't they?
Not really very grown up and not really the trade union way imho.

I think there should be a supplement for being a reserve.

[wannabeek]

Maybe not a simple supplement just for being a reserve because duty holders can get shifted from pillar to post at a moment's notice, just as a reserve can get left on the same duty for ages. Perhaps an extra payment based on how many duties an employee can cover, some sort of 'flexibility' bonus? I'm on 15 duties so far...

[dblad]

Maybe not a simple supplement just for being a reserve because duty holders can get shifted from pillar to post at a moment's notice, just as a reserve can get left on the same duty for ages. Perhaps an extra payment based on how many duties an employee can cover, some sort of 'flexibility' bonus? I'm on 15 duties so far...

A few years ago when I was covering in the subs I did 35 walks in 5 different sub offices, pleased I've only got the 1 to do now.

[coxie]

We should all be finishing at the same time anyway, if we ain't then that's a matter for you to take up.

[janitor]

I think new starters should get their own rounds and the experienced, time-served people should be the floaters/reserves.
That way, we should all finish around the same time. People with 25plus years who can prep and deliver their rounds blind-folded have loads of time to spare, while recent starters struggle with both, but are reluctant to book overtime because of peer pressure, i.e.jeers from their senior "colleagues", which is a form of bullying.

This already happens in my old office, new starts do two weeks with WPC then get left on the simplest round in the office, till the next nee start comes along, we had one new start on this round for 18 months or more, booking overtime daily for six months, management stopped paying it in the end, as they pointed out if he didn't spend over an hour at a time in the smoking shed, he would finish in time.

[bustedflush]

When the old-timers started, the deliveries were much much smaller.
If you had a 2 hour delivery and went over by 50% it was still only 3 hours.
If the same scenario plays out now, a 4 hour delivery + 50% is a 6 hour delivery. That is beyond most people's physical capabilities, especially if the newstart isn't used to physical work.
And of course we all know that what takes up time out on delivery is knocking on doors for packets and in the old days you had very few.
Very few Registered letters and no PDA. And no Tracked.

And what did we used to get - 3 hours o/t for a second delivery that consisted of 4 letters.

The job has changed. The training and induction needs to change as well and although there are some well intentioned documents, most offices are full of the same old s**t - we had it tough so why shouldn't they?
Not really very grown up and not really the trade union way imho.

I think there should be a supplement for being a reserve.

[Dumpys Rusty Nuts]

When the old-timers started, the deliveries were much much smaller.
If you had a 2 hour delivery and went over by 50% it was still only 3 hours.
If the same scenario plays out now, a 4 hour delivery + 50% is a 6 hour delivery. That is beyond most people's physical capabilities, especially if the newstart isn't used to physical work.
And of course we all know that what takes up time out on delivery is knocking on doors for packets and in the old days you had very few.
Very few Registered letters and no PDA. And no Tracked.

And what did we used to get - 3 hours o/t for a second delivery that consisted of 4 letters.

The job has changed. The training and induction needs to change as well and although there are some well intentioned documents, most offices are full of the same old s**t - we had it tough so why shouldn't they?
Not really very grown up and not really the trade union way imho.

I think there should be a supplement for being a reserve.

Don't know or care how long you have been doing the job but as a 30 year man would say you are talking crap.
When I first started ,upon leaving the office you caught a bus, if you missed that bus you waited 20 minutes for next bus, dropped off 5 sometimes 10 minutes away from starting point with a bag on your back that a donkey wouldn't carry. You were then racing to meet the driver for your next bag . When you weren't at your meeting point at said time the driver would find you and drop it off were you were delivering saying he had no time to wait, hence another bag and so on that weighed a ton.
Arguments everyday with driver about size of packet he wouldn't take, leaving you having to squeeze it into one of your 3/ 4 bags.
3 hours ot for a second delivery. Don't think so. A maximum of one and a half hours you would get.
The job has changed but the new starters don't have to do 5 or 6 day late turns, nights, I had to do a sorting test ,inward and outward sorting which involved 500 letters in 20 minutes with less than 3 mistakes. If you failed that 3 times you were out.
In my office when a newish starter who has been on the same delivery is told he is doing a different delivery the following week there is uproar. I cant do that , I don't know the area. The trouble today is the new starters are mollycoddled. Maybe if they did a few different deliveries in different parts of the town. No I will stop myself there ,its to hard for them. I , like a lot of other old timers had it far tougher. I remember when I was subbing doing a 6 day late which finished at 2. 45 on Saturday afternoon followed by drivers mate on nights which started at 8.00 on Sunday night. Imagine the outcry if a new starter had to do that.
NOT REALLY GROWN UP AND NOT REALLY THE TRADE UNION WAY . Nope, its called what really happened and couldn't give a toss about Moya,s union.
Hey , maybe all new starters can come in work every day and the older postmen can throw there deliveries out for them while they have a brew and a fag, Oh and put a tenner a piece extra in there pay packet, they deserve it much more than them old uns.