Accused of willful delay

mildred · Post by **mildred** » 15 Mar 2014, 21:04

I work 3 days a week. Monday Wednesdays and Saturday. Went into work last Monday to find my line manager had done my bags. Thought it was unusual but she said I was slow at bundling, went about my round as usual. Came in Wednesday to have my line manager taking me in her office and accused me of willful delay, she said that there was mail left in the frame on Monday and that she was going to make sure I am sacked because of this. I know there was no mail in the frame when I left on Monday. Suspect my line manager messed up when bundling and is trying to cover her mistake. Been taken off my round and doing job's in the sorting office. Have a meeting on Monday 9am, my union rep will be with me. Any advice is appreciated. Ps the line manager as cancelled the meeting once and said she cannot guarantee that she can make Monday.

UnhappyGremlin · Post by **UnhappyGremlin** » 15 Mar 2014, 21:21

Unless you are currently suspended, it is unlikely you will be dismissed.
Make sure the Rep knows everything, i.e. the full story.
Are there any witnesses to the fact the walk was sorted/bundled by the manager (or whoever she had do it)?
Or to confirm you didn't sort/bundle it?
If you never touched the frame, how can you have left mail in it?

Have you anything in writing in relation to this? You should be given written warning of a meeting, 48 hours before it is to take place.
From what you have said here, your Rep (assuming they are decent) should be able to fend off this crap quite easily.

Meetings about serious things like wilful delay don't get cancelled at a whim. Follow the Reps advice, and if it goes any further, inform the Area Rep and get further advice there.

Think this has fallen foul of procedure already.

Post by **spiderj** » 15 Mar 2014, 21:53

If you are absolutely solid on the facts request that the ib get involved and check the CCTV footage of the day concerned
Should show things as they are

Pat Ostman · Post by **Pat Ostman** » 16 Mar 2014, 00:02

Get your area rep involved pronto.

lala · Post by **lala** » 16 Mar 2014, 20:49

Could someone on a frame nearby have found a mis sort for your walk and dumped it on your frame after you left?

Seems there could be a lot of reasons for an item of mail found there.

maisymoo04 · Post by **maisymoo04** » 16 Mar 2014, 21:32

Nice managers aren't they MAKE SURE YOUR SACKED Should sack her

rehabron · Post by **rehabron** » 17 Mar 2014, 09:08

Don't you have a clear the frame procedure at your office that before you leave the building a manager has checked to see that no mail has been left. If she has stated that she wants you sacked under no circumstances do you attend any further meetings without a witness even if she suggests its an informal meeting.

mildred · Post by **mildred** » 17 Mar 2014, 17:02

Thanks for everyone's advice support. Had my meeting today, rep in attendance. The manager basically tried to say it was my fault and i deliberately withheld taking the mail out. Once she had been informed that there was a witness to confirm that she had bundled my walk she agreed that this was the case, however she had he bundling because she was a coach!. Union rep told get to decided weather she was a manager or a coach. She then produced a photo of the bundles on a bench with her signature on each bundle and again agreed that she had bundled them and signed them.
There is no procedure for checking frames, at least not in my section. Been told that the manager will write the minutes up and post me and the rep with a copy. Before deciding my fate, cannot see how she can do this as she as basically implicated her self. The union rep believes she made the mistake and is now covering up for herself. Hopefully will find out my fate sooner rather than later. Think I will start looking for another job as cannot stand working with someone like, which is a pity as I have been here 10 years and work with some good Postie's. Will let you the outcome

penlanpostie · Post by **penlanpostie** » 17 Mar 2014, 18:00

In my opinion as this manager was involved directly in the incident she shouldn't have conducted the investigation get your rep to insist another manager conducts the investigation as you are certainly not getting a fair hearing

Pat Ostman · Post by **Pat Ostman** » 17 Mar 2014, 19:12

Ah, would that investigation be the fact finding one where they automatically push it forwards without investigating anyone or anything?

UnhappyGremlin · Post by **UnhappyGremlin** » 17 Mar 2014, 22:02

When you get your copy of the notes, check them to make sure they are correct.
Get advice from the Rep/Area Rep before taking any action.

You are supposed to sign a copy of them and send them back to confirm they are correct, but there is a very good chance that they will mysteriously miss out any info implicating the manager, and will be severely edited to make you look guilty.
If they're wrong, don't sign them. But be aware, NOT returning them at all will result in the manager stating you must have agreed with their contents.

No matter what, get advice from the union.

Post by **newtimes** » 17 Mar 2014, 22:13

"But be aware, NOT returning them at all will result in the manager stating you must have agreed with their contents"
Surely the manager would not have an audit trail, only by signing them is saying that you agree, till then there is no agreement.

UnhappyGremlin · Post by **UnhappyGremlin** » 17 Mar 2014, 22:17

newtimes wrote:"But be aware, NOT returning them at all will result in the manager stating you must have agreed with their contents"
Surely the manager would not have an audit trail, only by signing them is saying that you agree, till then there is no agreement.

I have been on the end of a dismissal case, and it clearly stated by not returning them at all/if they arrive after the deadline, they assume you agree with them.
Not saying it's right. But, they will use whatever they can to bury people.

When it come to cases like these, there is always an audit trail, otherwise what's the point? They have to prove they have followed procedure etc.

Post by **newtimes** » 17 Mar 2014, 22:22

UnhappyGremlin wrote:
newtimes wrote:"But be aware, NOT returning them at all will result in the manager stating you must have agreed with their contents"
Surely the manager would not have an audit trail, only by signing them is saying that you agree, till then there is no agreement.
I have been on the end of a dismissal case, and it clearly stated by not returning them at all/if they arrive after the deadline, they assume you agree with them.
Not saying it's right. But, they will use whatever they can to bury people.

When it come to cases like these, there is always an audit trail, otherwise what's the point? They have to prove they have followed procedure etc.

point noted and totally agree, cheers

celtic_eagle · Post by **celtic_eagle** » 18 Mar 2014, 14:22

I agree with reading the notes carefully. When I had my fact finding interview the line manager agreed I was unfairly treated at being the only one being spoken to about streaming mail. We had a manager from another office taking notes at the time, when they posted the notes to me that admission was missed off and I refused to sign them until it was added on which they agreed to in the end.

ROYALMAILCHAT

Accused of willful delay

Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay

Re: Accused of willful delay